Larry's - Why is this club still open?

[Chriztian]

This post has nothing to do with race, Larry's was never a problem when they just played R&B, Jazz & Blues...

However over the last few months this club has become a fucking nightmare! Its commonly called "Fight Club" by everyone down in the Square.

1. Ken Hamilin of the Seahawks is beat up and put in the hospital, most likely out for the rest of the season because of the damage done - http://www.komonews.com/stories/39783.htm

2. Bouncer at Larry's is stabbed inside the club

3. Two Military guys are beat down, arms broken, fractured skull, etc (all after they were knocked out cold, I'm sure most of you saw the video, very disturbing!) - http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=38738 - Did these guys ever get caught? Anyone know?

4. They are getting sued by two different property owners in the area because of noise (no complaints against The Central or the J&M), they run a after hours from like 5:00am to 11:00am, mostly white kids for this I might add). Because of the booming club at six in the morning apartments in the area are having a HUGE problem renting out any apartments, most being lucky if they rent out 50% of their apartments (after hours is also somewhat new, in the last year or so).

5. I live about three blocks away from Larry's and have had to call the police AT LEAST twenty times in the last couple months because of fights. One fight involving over 40 people!!!!!@#@!!!! One of the calls involved two males beating down a girl right in front of the club (the police showed and got the girl a ambulance but the two guys were long gone by this time).

Its a complete joke, talk to anyone who lives or works down in the square, everyone is aware of the problem and yet it continues! Everyone seems to be of the opinion the reason Larry's is allowed to still operate is because the city is afraid of being labeled racist if they attempt to shut it down. But holy shit what more has to happen? Anyone?

Try walking past the front of Larry's between 1:30am & 2:15am, its always a bunch of guys just standing in front of the club looking for a fight, calling anyone and everyone names, hassling anyone walking by, etc.

The owners always saying the same thing, hey its not our fault, its happening outside of our club and we are not responsible for anything that happens outside the club. Well shit guys, its happening on your door step and everyone knows IT IS YOUR CLUB! Helll the bouncers at the Central & J&M get inside the minute they close and are always encouraging everyone to not go near Larry's when they leave cause its always a bunch of guys looking for a fight (ask any of the bouncers at the Central or the J&M).

Can anything be done to help speed up the process of getting this place closed? Being a resident of the square I am TIRED of this place, it needs to go!

ok /vent off......

[caelius]

ya, that place is a dive. do building maintenance down there. i really hate the after hours calls for that area.

[bobcat]

that guy who punched Ken Hamilin just showed up dead and is the big story on news tonight.

[sheikyerbouti]

the people that run Larry's are fucking scumbags... one need only look at the sort of promoters they associate with... case in point: Jean Baptiste, a longtime reggae promoter in Seattle that is so hated, so despised, that he supposedly carries a gun. the guy has fucked over countless bands. bastard even LOOKS like a pig!

i don't know that the solution to the problem is to close down Larry's. think of it this way -- the scumbags are "contained" within this joint, and as such, it will be easier to deal with them. close Larry's down, and the rats behind (and IN) the joint will scatter round to other parts of the city...

what's sad about all this is that young black dudes have few places to go party down to hiphop/r&b/etc. in Seattle.

if there were more joints, you wouldn't find cats with $options$ such as Ken Hamlin hanging round shitholes like Larry's. his choices are limited if he wants to jam to an urban groove. simple as that. this AIN'T atlanta. if hotlanta is YING, seattle is YANG...

anyhow, there are plenty of legit artists/dj's that perform/spin at Larry's. problem is, when the scumbag middle-aged white fucks running the show only care about money (period), they ain't gonna smoke out (i.e. "86") any of the cash-totin' niggaz that will inevitably show up and perhaps ruin the good time being had by the black brothas'n'sistas (and white folks too!) in the house. Instead, Larry's probably bounces problem niggaz out into the street, where they loiter and hold office round the sidewalk, up to no good (just waitin' for someone to bump 'em or look at 'em funny, etc.). Probably ain't much of anything that would get one 86'd outta Larry's other than waving a gun around or punching a bartender... Larry ain't gonna bite the hands that feed him...

anyhow, like Chris Rock once said... if ya get enough black folks in one place, havin' a good time, sooner or later a nigga will show up and ruin it for everyone. it's the murphy's law of hoppin' hiphop/r&b joints.

now, i ain't sayin' Hamlin played the leading nigga role here (although i would certainly doubt it)... i have no idea, naturally. but there was certainly a heavy nigga factor involved, as is nearly always the case at Larry's. that much is obvious. and, again, the scumbags running Larry's are happy to take all a dem niggaz money. all in all, a recipe for disaster... (i'm surprised there aren't MORE incidents around there)

the cops are gonna have to try and weed out the hoodlum niggaz hollatickin' round Larry's, cuz Larry sure as hell ain't gonna do anything about it. it's part of his biz model... Larry don't give a fuck, and OF COURSE he's gonna try to shift all the blame away from his business. the guy's an expert at that: he's a professional weasel, for fuck's sake.

goes to show how limited black folks' choices are in Seattle... they head down to Larry's and turn their money over to a fuckin' white weasel. that's some sad shit. you think they'd be doing that if there were more options? hell no...

[damstraiht]

Anyone remember Celebrities?

It was next to the old Phoenix Underground (and eventually was bought by the owner and was expanded)

I used to enjoy the club but after a while things got out of hand and I believe they finally shut the place down after a drive by shooting incident.

Unfortunately political red tape forces the city to allow clubs to operate until they can build a case against said club and legitimately shut them down.

[Gatsby]

if you wanna hear some hiphop in the city proper, and aren't down with the hipster scene that thinks it's hilarious to bust a move to some Slim Thug, where you gonna go? Lotta heads say larry's. In heavy drug-trafficking P. Square. Awesome. So shit's always gonna pop off, and the clubs and promoters are always gonna give less than 2 squirts about it. I hate Pioneer Square- but it's the hi-fivin white folks that i can't stand when I'm down there. Anyway, it's just the way it is. this is white folk's city so the only places blacks can get down on their own terms is gonna be someplace kinda shaky. The real yardstick of how Seattle ain't a real burg is not it's transportation issues but how there's no decent places to chill and listen to hiphop.

[Shackletodd]

if you wanna hear some hiphop in the city proper, and aren't down with the hipster scene that thinks it's hilarious to bust a move to some Slim Thug, where you gonna go? Lotta heads say larry's. In heavy drug-trafficking P. Square. Awesome. So shit's always gonna pop off, and the clubs and promoters are always gonna give less than 2 squirts about it. I hate Pioneer Square- but it's the hi-fivin white folks that i can't stand when I'm down there. Anyway, it's just the way it is. this is white folk's city so the only places blacks can get down on their own terms is gonna be someplace kinda shaky. The real yardstick of how Seattle ain't a real burg is not it's transportation issues but how there's no decent places to chill and listen to hiphop.
The war room on sat. nights. Enough with the Whitey shit already. People that bridge and tunnel to hang out in pioneer spuare all suck regardless of their skin color.

[Gatsby]

People that bridge and tunnel to hang out in pioneer spuare all suck regardless of their skin color.

sure, sure. and yo, son is terrif and all that, but falls into the hipster category for a lotta heads. as does anything hiphoppish that happens on cap hill.

[segal]

sure, sure. and yo, son is terrif and all that, but falls into the hipster category for a lotta heads. as does anything hiphoppish that happens on cap hill.
Is there something innately incompatible/unbearable concerning gatherings involving "hipsters" and "heads"? If so, please elaborate. I think we can all get along... and maybe get a bong, too.

[raymondrna]

just out of curiousity .. are you afraid you might catch the hipster or head disease? The word on the street is that it's actually not contagious and that it is actually possible to coexist with their conspicuously bad fashion sense and their immaturity without actually turning into one. It's mind boggling that one would avoid some of the happenings in seattle hiphop 'cause it's not drrrty south enough or gansta ghetto fabulous enough. Enough with the separatist notion that hipsters going to a hiphop show makes the hiphop to be heard bad [you would avoid a KRS-one show for the fear of a few hipsters???].

Lastely fucking take over the show. Arrange a show-jacking. Call up all your non-hipster head peeps and have them call all their peeps (ad infinitum) and bumrush the place so the hipsters are displaced. Be proactive and stop your bitchin'

All of you.

[Rachael Valenti]

Can anything be done to help speed up the process of getting this place closed? Being a resident of the square I am TIRED of this place, it needs to go!


It looks like you might be gettin' your wish.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/254864_larrys07.html
http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=41158

I'm somewhat surprised this was not already mentioned in the SLOG by someone. Then again, it's probably hard to get facts on a weekend when a state agency is involved.

~r~

[Jimmy Flame]

sure, sure. and yo, son is terrif and all that, but falls into the hipster category for a lotta heads. as does anything hiphoppish that happens on cap hill.

Hip-Hoppish?? Whats that?

[Agent_Desmond]

Man, some of those quotes at the end of the article are priceless. Such as how the police are just out to get the owner of Larry's because of the Seahawk incident, or how the city is against R&B

It looks like you might be gettin' your wish.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/254864_larrys07.html
http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=41158

I'm somewhat surprised this was not already mentioned in the SLOG by someone. Then again, it's probably hard to get facts on a weekend when a state agency is involved.

~r~

[Gomezticator]

Terence Milam was a victim! The stop sign fell out of his hand and onto Ken Hamlin's skull!

But seriously, it's not about hip-hop, it's about assholes threatening others' lives in front of a nightclub, and the clubowner making no effort to do something about it. Yeah, I'd shut that joint down too, no matter who the clientele was.

[Agent_Desmond]

I think it's just a last ditch effort in trying to play victim. And when I say Last Ditch, I really mean, half-assed-pathetic-excuse. Hip Hop has nothing to do with it as everyone knows... I mean, they could play Christian Rap, and if the same thing happened there, the owner would say how the city is against Christian Rap.

Terence Milam was a victim! The stop sign fell out of his hand and onto Ken Hamlin's skull!

But seriously, it's not about hip-hop, it's about assholes threatening others' lives in front of a nightclub, and the clubowner making no effort to do something about it. Yeah, I'd shut that joint down too, no matter who the clientele was.

[Marion Zioncheck]

I saw a Larry's bouncer (white) beat and kick the shit out of a sarcastic but unthreatening and drunk patron on the sidewalk (white) in 1997. Nasty, nasty scene.

[pgreyy]

I was in the music industry for over 20 years...and even before I moved here, I knew that Seattle was a town that loved black music--call it urban, funk, R&B, hip hop, jazz, whatever...as the styles and the flavors change--and that love of black music continues to this day.

But Seattle, as represented by its government and local law enforcement, also fears black music...and is quick to blame the music for any problems surrounding those who like the music (which can be a lot of problems, since a lot of people like it...)

To me, that's like blaming Italian food for a New Jersey mob hit...saying that maybe that guy in the fancy suit wouldn't have gotten shot if that restaurant had been serving Chinese food.

I remember working with a brand new nightclub in town that was starting up in the mid-90's...and it was spelled out to the owners very clearly--"unless you promise not to play hip hop or R&B in this club, you won't open."

Black music is popular in Seattle--but the city won't allow clubs to fill that need...there is more demand than there is supply... So, what we end up with is a constant situation where too many people are trying to squeeze into the too few places willing to try to grab that elusive brass ring of offering the people what they want...the treasure of all of that money and sting of all of the problems that come with it...

The answer has already been suggested earlier in this thread--Seattle needs MORE hip hop and R&B clubs, not less. When you've got all of those agitated atoms squeezed into a single confined space--you're going to witness an explosion more often than not...but spread those atoms around and they won't keep bumping into each other and they'll have some breathing room when they do...fewer, less agitated atoms and your danger of explosions goes down significantly...

On top of that, the way I look at it...if the people of Seattle WANT hip hop and R&B clubs...and I think it's proven that they do...then isn't it the police's job to make certain they have a safe time doing so--not sitting back and letting things get bad enough so they can shut another club down?

Rather than setting up the police to be adversaries working against club owners--why not make it so that calling 911 to deal with a situation at a club that the club staff can't handle on their own a GOOD thing? Certainly, you don't want any situations to need police attention--but alcohol will do that to a fan of any kind of music or any kind of entertainment...and sometimes the police need to be called in to restore order--that's what we pay them for...

The way the system is now, a club is reticent to call 911 because that's another mark against them on their way to being forcibly shutdown...meaning you have to hire private security who may not be the best trained or best overseen and certainly not publicly accountable... Then, you put this private security in position where the club needs them to not only have to deal with everything that goes on inside the club...but since this city holds the clubs responsible for things that happen IN THE VICINITY of their property as well, the clubs need these private security staffers to somehow patrol the streets in front of the club...or the parking lots within a few blocks of the club?

That's a nightmare scenario.

And we have to realize that some idiots want to drink and fight. If idiots want to drink and fight...as idiots have seemed to want to drink and fight for centuries now...the question becomes what real responsibility does the club have? Can you expect them to prevent every altercation from happening anywhere, ever?

First, clubs ARE responsible for not allowing their customers to be overserved, which can be difficult in Pioneer Square where the joint cover and the flavor of the neighborhood makes it difficult to know how much a customer has had and how drunk they really are...

I also believe that clubs are responsible for trying to defuse situations when they occur. THAT'S what your security staff should be for... If a couple of guys bump into each other...or if a guy gets upset because another guy starts dancing next to his girlfriend...then you need people ready to seperate people and to calmly deal with the situation. Hell, rent Road House a couple of times if you need to--"be nice until it's time to not be nice" worked fine for Dalton, it should work at most bars in the Seattle metropolitan area.

I also believe that clubs are responsible for eliminating problem patrons from their property if a situation cannot be resolved or defused. You can't have fights in the establishment--and the security staff's goal, after trying and failing to resolve a situation quickly and peacefully inside the club, is to get them out of the club...to isolate them and evacuate them.

Here's the thing--once a person has left the club--that's the end of that club's responsibility for that person's actions.

The simple fact that a person went dancing or drinking at a particular club doesn't mean that the club has to worry about his every move until he falls asleep that night (unless that patron was overserved)--and how could they possibly BE responsible for anything that patron does after he leaves the club?

If you go back to the Ken Hamlin incident... The club didn't put the stop sign into that guy's hands...the music didn't put the stop sign into that guy's hands...

Maybe Larry's deserves to be shut down for various reasons...I don't know the owners, I've never bothered to go there--I'm not really standing up for that particular establishment at this particular time...

...but, I do know that if Seattle continues to be a town that has a demand for more places to enjoy hip hop & R&B while, at the same time, the various city authorities conspire to make certain that they don't get what they want--there will continue to be problems, and shutting down Larry's just pushes a frustrated and underserved audience into the next club with a weak relationship with local law enforcement... The problem didn't end when they shut down Celebrities...or Jerseys...or Cafe Arizona...or Atlantis...or Sharky's...or (insert club name here)...

People don't disappear just because you make it harder for them to find a good time. And, as long as a club is doing the right thing inside the club--managing their alcohol sales the best that they can, providing enough internal security to deal with the most common issues...then I think they deserve the positive cooperation of the local police to help them deal with issues beyond their establishment's perimeter.

pg

PS--And I'm sorry...I don't think that anyone who moved into apartments in Pioneer Square has any right to complain about noise... Where did you THINK you were moving to...Wallingford?