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Gomezticator
October 31st, 2005, 09:19 PM
Some of you may have read this, but feminists either love or hate this weekend article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/magazine/30feminism.html) (bypass registration here (http://www.bugmenot.com)) by NYT columnist Maureen Dowd, where she delves into the retrogression of feminists.

I personally think that all the commentary on this article has missed the boat on one major reason feminism is dying. I've discussed this elsewhere and will repost my point here.

Traditional marriage, the archaic perception of marriage and children as a perfunctory goal, rather than as a personal life decision, has cut off the non-traditional movement known as feminism at the knees.

Women historically learned to see marriage and kids as a goal in life. However, back in the day women had few options at best for life. You weren't allowed to work in high-level positions. You were expected to stay home, bat your eyes and look pretty enough for some guy to marry you so that you could do his cooking and cleaning (and with certain guys, take their beatings) for the rest of your life. Hell, until 1919 you weren't allowed to vote. Women were taught to pursue marriage because there was no other life for them.

So we get feminism, a push for equality among women. However, one thing was forgotten: if a woman goes to work 40-60 hours a week and climbs the corporate ladder, she's not going to be able to stay at home and raise the kids. No one's home to do the cooking. No one's home to do the laundry. Man's got to do some of the cooking. He's got to do some of the housekeeping and laundry. Not everyone can afford a maid. And say what you will about the benefits of daycare: it's expensive, your child grows up under someone else's watch and once they become self-sufficient enough to come home from school on their own, there's the chance of abandonment issues, detachment issues and other emotional conflicts to come into play during adolescence, stuff you really couldn't control because you couldn't be home because you had a career to attend to.

I'm not faulting women. It's just that you can't do both: you cannot be a full time housewife and mom, and be a career woman at the same time. The time investment required to do one competently, let alone well, won't allow it. You have to choose one or the other. This is why professional women don't breed, not some shit about men fearing women from Harvard.

Of course, the Harvard Argument comes into play when trying to get into a relationship... but that leads to another question: why are both sides trying so hard to get into a relationship? Oh yeah, because in 2005 we're still taught to pursue marriage, a religious tradition where man plays the superior and woman the inferior. I don't think man would be intimidated by woman if they were just causally seeing each other, but it changes once the prospect of spending the rest of your lives together comes into play.

The continued perception of marriage as a life goal, rather than seeing marriage as a mutual life decision that happens to make sense for both particular parties, is where American Feminism fails.

You're taking the square block of marriage and trying to cram it into the round hole of feminism. Marriage is not a necessary goal anymore, because women today can go to school, develop their careers and live a professionally fruitful life on their own. But women today are still taught, intuitively via peer pressure and the media, to see marriage as a goal. This is where the identity confusion that Maureen Dowd mentioned in her article comes from. Feminism never addressed the role of marriage in society.

Marriage is seen as a requirement, like graduating from high school, rather than as a choice, like deciding to move to a city you love. In society, single or unmarried men and women are treated as social failures. The Feminist's movement's failure to address this contradiction and change is perception had led to the decline of feminism, as outlined in Dowd's lengthy article.

Johnny Slick
November 1st, 2005, 02:06 PM
I don't think that the issue is so much that feminism has died but that the flip side has never really been addressed. Yes, men are oppressed by the system as well. There's no glass ceiling, but instead there's something akin to a peg-box. Even in sub-cultures where it's okay to be a round peg instead of a square one, you still have to be shaped like a peg. Okay, that allusion makes no sense so I'll be a bit more clear.

Basically, as the saying goes, if you cut open a guy's head you're not necessarily a brain surgeon, but suck one dick and you're gay all your life. Historically speaking, a sharp dividing line between het and homo just did not exist until the term "homosexual" was devised in the 1860s. Shakespeare wrote roughly half his sonnets about a man - and half about a woman known to scholars as "the Dark Lady." Alexander the Great had male lovers but also IIRC sired children, and not necessarily with any more sense of duty than any other Greek or Roman leader.

The fact is, there is a dividing line between masculine heterosexuality and feminine male homosexuality that exists even among the gay community. Judith Butler somehow thought that gay men dressing in drag broke down gender barriers - a pretty typical thought from a woman who simply does not understand the male experience. Rather than break down male-female walls, it reinforces gay-straight walls. I don't say this to condemn those who are into drag but merely to point out reality.

In addition to not being able to wear a dress or else be viewed as gay (or Scottish!), heterosexual men are dissuaded from doing a lot of things:

- Raising children, to the extent that many judges will grant custody to a working woman over a stay-at-home dad in divorce

- Showing an "inordinate" amount of interest in young children not their own. The stereotype of the man who likes to work with kids as a pedophile is so pervasive... and yet, a woman who likes to work with kids does not face this taboo.

- Enjoying certain aspects of our culture. I'm a huge fan of musical theatre. Does that make me gay? Of course not. Yet, even gay-friendly media like the movie "In and Out" categorize the enjoyment of Barbra Streisand and Les Miserables as homosexual behavior. (note: not a big fan of Streisand, myself; frankly, I think that those who are into her have extraordinarily bad taste. But they're not necessarily gay)

- Showing certain emotions. From what I've gathered, it's okay for a het man to cry if he just played in his 2,132nd consecutive baseball game. Don't cry at the theatre, though.

I'm a strong believer that there is one thing and one thing along that makes you gay, and that's fucking men. Call me crazy. Society definitely does not agree with me.

Sweet Jane
November 2nd, 2005, 02:30 PM
Marriage is seen as a requirement, like graduating from high school, rather than as a choice, like deciding to move to a city you love. In society, single or unmarried men and women are treated as social failures. The Feminist's movement's failure to address this contradiction and change is perception had led to the decline of feminism, as outlined in Dowd's lengthy article.

Yes, yes, yes.
Maureen misses the mark and that is one of the major reasons, but I think the flip side is equally important.

In addition to not being able to wear a dress or else be viewed as gay (or Scottish!), heterosexual men are dissuaded from doing a lot of things:

- Raising children, to the extent that many judges will grant custody to a working woman over a stay-at-home dad in divorce

- Showing an "inordinate" amount of interest in young children not their own. The stereotype of the man who likes to work with kids as a pedophile is so pervasive... and yet, a woman who likes to work with kids does not face this taboo.

What most annoys me most is all of these articles on gender inequality, marriage, war between the sexes, etc., assume that I would agree and that anecdotal evidence from random persons or television somehow proves their point.

The box doesn't fit, Ms. Dowd.

Gomezticator
November 2nd, 2005, 07:43 PM
Thanks, Jane. Sadly, the take of marriage as a choice rather than a goal is in the minority to this day, and it's fractured and warped a lot of lives.

And yes, Johnny Slick makes a good point. Gender equality is a two way street, and we should be just as open minded about how heterosexual men conduct themselves as women. I cried when my mother broke out bawling before Christmas two years ago because she was so hungry and broke, and I still sleep with women. No identity crisis here.

The state of Washington is one of many states that cruelly punishes men during divorce hearings. One example: Two men I worked with got divorced and put through the damn ringer. One doesn't get to see his kids more than once a month, plus practically loses his shirt in alimony every month. The other doesn't date much because he doesn't want to end up in this situation again.

Back to Miss Dowd... Miss Dowd needs to go out more among the common crowd and observe society at large before jumping to conclusions.