This wee's awesome Savage Love: The Cheated Cheat

[Gomezticator]

This is a top-shelf observation. From this week's Savage Love: (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=26100)

It needs to be said that depriving a spouse of sex—or subjecting them to absolutely joyless sex in the hope that they'll stop asking—is an act of emotional violence. And this brand of emotional violence not only creates frustration, anger, and desperation, it inevitably leads to infidelity, which all too often leads to divorce, broken homes, and traumatized children.

And who gets the blame? The spouse who cheated, of course! Didja hear? WILLIE—a man with a wife and a child!—ran off with another woman! Oh, and FS—a woman with a husband and kids!—was sleeping with another man!

This is, among other reasons, why I don't really want to get married. I don't want to end up sexually frustrated with a partner who doesn't want to fuck.

I think there are too many cases of partners who don't want to put out... then get cheated on and get all upset and don't know how their partner could do this to them, etc etc. These same people say that sex isn't a big deal.

YES IT IS. It is a VERY BIG FUCKING DEAL to many of us. I am a big fan of premarital sex: it's the sexual version of a test drive. I personally want to know, well before I even consider sliding the ring on a woman's finger, whether or not she will satisfy me in bed and vice versa. And I think many of us need to toss aside the taboo reservations about sex and find out sooner rather than later how sexually compatible we are with our partners and whether or not this aspect of the relationship can last.

Because if it can't, someone's gonna wanna cheat, and the high incidence of promiscuity in this country will continue. Unless you're swingers and you're fine with that, you need to do your research.

Thoughts? I just wanted to bring this up because it was a super insightful Savage Love column that brought up an excellent point.

[Holmgang]

This is, among other reasons, why I don't really want to get married. I don't want to end up sexually frustrated with a partner who doesn't want to fuck.

May I recommend exploring poly-amory, which, while personally challenging and limiting to the pool of marriable potentials, avoids the "no-sex-down-the-road" problem, because both partners recognize and accept that each partner may have other partners (emotional, sexual, activity, etc.) external (and at times internal) to the marriage. If one partner goes "dormant", they would already be in a place to understand that the other partner may need or want to have sexual relationships external to the core marriage (assuming with children, or perhaps even not).

The core marriage becomes an important contract that neither violates, AND protects the children, yet both are able to "scratch the itch" when it shows up.

Traditionally, in parts of Europe, partners have turned a blind eye to extramarital affairs, choosing instead to stay together (honoring the contract), while the other partner scratches the itch. This method, while it may work, is less honest than poly-amorous relationships, which essentially require partners to be up front about their intentions and desires.

The honesty is essentially this: Oftentimes people become bored with each other if they stay together for extended periods of time (ESPECIALLY in "nuclear families", dear god!), and need outside support, contact, and opportunities for growth that can only occur with different people. Poly-amory allows for this, and is upfront about it.

I suspect that Dan Savage didn't mention poly-amory in his replies because (a.) currently married, monogamous couples probably wouldn't ever go there, and (b.) it might shock the monog's out there. Maybe not b.

A popular and good book exploring poly relationships is The Ethical Slut, which can be found on Amazon.com, and our own Seattle Public Library (although there are currently 16 holds on it). Intelligently written, accessible, and forthright. An interesting read even if you aren't, or thinking of becoming, poly.
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Holmgang

[caustic meatloaf]

What a huge, steaming heaping pile of horse shit. Seriously. Polyamory has just as many, if not moreso problems than traditional monogamous marriage.

Here's a question. I'm assuming you're a guy. would you be open to having a polyamorous relationship with only one woman in the triad? Color me skeptical, but probably not.

Having more people in an intimate relationship doesn't mean fewer problems. It means MORE problems. More emotions, more toes to step on, more bad choices in words. More drama. VERY, VERY, VERY few polyamorous relationships last any meaningful amount of time, much less a lifetime.

Part of being in any relationship is understanding that it ain't going to be a cakewalk the entire time, but that, ultimately, it'll be better than being alone. If it gets to the point where you feel that you would be better ALONE than with someone, then leave 'em. Simple math.

[Mrt1212]

I love whenever someone suggest polyamorous relationships as the panacea to sexual desire problems in the relationship. i think a lot of the times the sexual desire is a symptom of a problem.

if it works great, but the idea that it will work for many people, is just as laughable to me, as the idea of one person satisfying your needs is laughable to you.

[raymondrna]

people are different. 'nough said.

[Cristian84]

This subject concerning sex has a religious background and the no sex before marriage rule was invented by stupid people and not by God. God never said not to have sex before marriage, but God said to keep our soul/spirit clear and pure and by that he meant to be at peace with ourselves and at the same time to maintain an equilibrium between the spirit and the body because both are a part of a human being.

[freikja]

May I recommend exploring poly-amory, which, while personally challenging and limiting to the pool of marriable potentials, avoids the "no-sex-down-the-road" problem, because both partners recognize and accept that each partner may have other partners (emotional, sexual, activity, etc.) external (and at times internal) to the marriage.

Yanno, l'm poly, but l would not have recommended it in response to this particular OP. l wouldn't do so because he's clearly monogamous, and at no point indicated that he was looking for more than one woman, or that his problem lay with monogamy. l wonder if you actually read his post, because he's talking about making sure he's simply sexually compatible with a partner who won't punish him by withholding. Which is a perfectly valid concern, since unfortunately my gender is populated with manipulative and bitchy types who think that withholding sex is a good way to get what they want. lt's not, and that's precisely what the OP was talking about.

Freikja,
who is seriously annoyed when poly people try to recruit monos who are likely never going to care to explore poly to begin with - or who never asked about it in the first place...