The Capitol Hill Block Party 2005

[Fuzed]

The Stranger and 107.7 The End present THE CAPITOL HILL BLOCK PARTY 2005

Saturday and Sunday July 30-31, 2005 -- The best way to celebrate summer -- a weekend-long block party featuring over 50 of the best Northwest bands and DJ's on four stages, multiple beer gardens, community activist, artist and food booths organized by Matthew Parker of I Heart Rummage, the new Decibel Festival Electronic Music Stage, local politicians who are working to support the Seattle music community, and the Stranger Lustlab dildo ring toss! - The Capitol Hill Block Party is a huge, two-day explosion of bands and a great opportunity to see the most exciting new music from the best music scene in the country all while supporting great non-profit programs like The Vera Project and Home Alive.

Already Confirmed...More bands to be announced...

Built to Spill, The Presidents of the United States of America, These Arms Are Snakes, Aqueduct, Kuma, 3 Inches of Blood, Blue Scholars, Band of Horses, Jerry Abstract, Nordic Soul, Mountain Con, Raz Rez, Kingsley, Paul Edwards, The Cribs, Pleasurecraft, No Fi Soul Rebellion, The Bullion Brothers, Chuck Yay-grr! , New Fangs, The Crutches, Village Green, Christina Childs, Racetrack, Mikaela's Fiend, Mon Frere, Bullet Train to Vegas, Levi Fuller, The Stereo Future, Viva Voce, Mary Timony, Doomsday 1999, Akimbo, The Ruby Doe, Synth Club, Stabmaster Arson, Yaphet Kotto, and Fankick!

Check out www.capitolhillblockparty.com for the full schedule and updates

Seattle's biggest plunge into pop culture...The Capitol Hill Block Party is the rock-music community's most prestigious showcase. - The Seatle Times

This isn't your parents' neighborhood festival....The two-day festival celebrating the music and culture of Capitol Hill ...has grown into a vibrant community event packed with live performances by some of Seattle's best young rock bands. - The Seattle PI

Advance tickets available starting Saturday June 18 at 10:00 am at www.thestranger.com - get them now, limited capacity!

[tempertantrum]

Piss off. You took a cool, free, neighborhood function and turned it to shit. I live two blocks from the "Block Party" and believe me it is just not welcome. Especially awful are the bouncers that harrass people in the PUBLIC PARK (where your damn Block Party has NO permit). One year a security person threatened me for standing in the park and told me that "If I did not move I would be very sorry". Fucking great, guys. Awesome. You guys rule.

[spacerawk]

yeah, I'm sure you were just "walking through the park" when you heard all those bands over the fence last year at the block party. buck up and fucking pay the $10 to support your local artist and neighborhood, you asshole.

[coffdrop]

ha ha ha ha ha

[tempertantrum]

I support bands all the time. I attend and book shows. I play in bands. I've done so for years. I also plan on voting with my hard earned cash and not attending this "Block Party". No big loss to Dave Meinert, The Stranger, and all the other people that consistently kiss his ass, but hey, that is pretty much all I can do as a music fan and a consumer. I don't go to El Corazan either due to the abusive security (you may have heard the stories, there are many). Abusive security at rock shows makes you look bad. Live and learn.

By the way, $10 will not get you in the gate.

[Fuzed]

hey Tempertantrum, don't know who you are but I figure you are a local in a band that has not played the Block Party. Maybe your band sucks, maybe it is killer. Block Party security does not patrol the park next to the event, except for the backstop which the City has demanded we keep people off of. So if you were in the park just hanging out I doubt if you were harassed. If you were on the fence or backstop the security might have asked you to move, and if you didn't, they were probably rude, since well, you were probably rude to them. But hey, whatever, they are just people doing their job and overall are pretty great as is evidenced by the total lack of incidents we've had at the festival. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and apologize for them. And to doubly make it up to you how about I give your band a slot at the festival? Hit me back and I'll hook you up. Otherwise, sorry, we really do try to be a nice inclusive community event. Can't make everyone happy, but we can try.

By the way, the last year of the Block Party before we took it over was ok but many people felt not so great. So my partner and I got involved, increased the production quality, added 3 stages, made it two days, brought in a ton of booths, politicians, different sponsors (like the Stranger), and made Vera a benficiary of it. The festival now pays the bands that play, Vera kids help out and even book a stage, we donate thousands of dollars a year to VERA and Home Alive, give free booth space to non-profit and political groups, and this year have added an electronic music stage thanks to the Decibel Festival people. Over 50 Northwest bands play, and a lot of people like the event. Again, can't make everyone happy, but you can also always start your own festival if you don't like this one.

So let me know if your band wants to play.

[spacerawk]

our band would be happy to play if there was more slots open, but we're not one of the stranger's "flavor of the month" bands, so we'll just play a show a block away that anyone who really knows what's going on will come to while everyone else sits through another predicible Built to Spill set.

[intelekshual]

Unless I'm missing something here, you were just offered a slot. Bitter and irrational much?

[spacerawk]

I wasn't offered a slot, tempertantrum was.

[Mason]

The Block Party is good stuff. Can't wait to go. For reference, how do bands submit and what are the deadlines? (try to get my shiz together for next year)

[spacerawk]

it's invite only, you have to know someone, or someone who know's someone etc.

[Mason]

Ahh. I see. Well, that makes things fun :)

[MoreDrugsPlease]

Ahh. I see. Well, that makes things fun :)

Yeah, not really. It's all about who you know in this town, not whether your music is any good. Here's the key: your music has to be boring to anyone who isn't already a pretentious scenester and have no chance of going anywhere outside the northwest. Built to Spill? Modest Mouse? These bands suck ass and Modest Mouse's brief flash in the pan was over months ago and yet they still hang on to them here. These are the same people who hated grunge because it brought attention from "those other places". They have a vested interest in keeping seattle a po-dunk town. If it weren't, they'd be out of a job.

You wanna make it here? String your guitar backwards so it sounds like you can't play. Then learn to suck dick and buy a lot of cocaine. Grow your hair till it is in your face and then put on a blind fold and cut it while drunk. Pay a homeless person for his clothes and wear them. Hang out at the Cha Cha and share your blow and blowjobs with the regulars. The Stranger will be begging for an "interview" in no time.

[Mason]

Yes. I am aware. The post was my attempt at scarcasm...

I will say though. The people, for the most part, like good music when they are exposed to it. It is just that a good band cannot get the shows they deserve in most cases.

[MoreDrugsPlease]

Yes. I am aware. The post was my attempt at scarcasm...

I will say though. The people, for the most part, like good music when they are exposed to it. It is just that a good band cannot get the shows they deserve in most cases.

Or the press or the airtime. Somehow getting attention as a band in Seattle has become a popularity contest, but the definition of "cool" in this town is so skewed from what it is elsewhere that to be cool here basically means committing social suicide with the rest of the world. Why the fuck can't it be just about the music? Seriously... the local music press and most of the DJs have some sort of conspiracy to only highlight crappy boring music for some reason. KEXP is almost unlistenable most of the time. What the fuck is playing on there right now? Some crap ass jazz from the 50s? WTF? Where's the local rock????

If I had the power, I would ask every band in Seattle to send in their demos, then I would circulate those demos to music fans all over the world and find the ones that had real hit potential, and then I would play the hell out of those bands on Seattle radio. You never read a positive review of a local band saying "they may really have a chance to be the next big thing out of the northwest". Instead, it will say something like "their sound is too mainstream to be taken seriously". WTF????

[Mason]

Right. But, to play Devil's Advocate....

In my experience there are also ALOT of bands in Seattle that suck really really bad and still beleive they are better than a Modest Mouse (just an example, I hate MM). Just because MM blows doesn't mean your band or any other band is any better. Maybe your sucks too, in a different way. (I am not LITERALLY saying your band obviously)

The truth is that 99% of bands in Seattle (I cannot speak for other places) are unoriganal and mildly talented anyways.

All of that said, I would much rather hear crappy rock/punk than crappy emo/whateverthehellkindamusicitisthatisplayingontherad ionow.

[MoreDrugsPlease]

Right. But, to play Devil's Advocate....

In my experience there are also ALOT of bands in Seattle that suck really really bad and still beleive they are better than a Modest Mouse (just an example, I hate MM). Just because MM blows doesn't mean your band or any other band is any better. Maybe your sucks too, in a different way. (I am not LITERALLY saying your band obviously)

The truth is that 99% of bands in Seattle (I cannot speak for other places) are unoriganal and mildly talented anyways.

All of that said, I would much rather hear crappy rock/punk than crappy emo/whateverthehellkindamusicitisthatisplayingontherad ionow.

Totally agree that lots of bands suck. BUT, this should ideally be decided by the listeners. The fact is, listeners here only get exposure to bands that fall in a very narrow genre. Who knows if Seattle "really is" an indie rock town, or an emo town? Maybe it's really a hip hop and country town, but we would never know it because of the entrenched music establishment.

[poochiekafelnikov]

(try to get my shiz together for next year)

does your band believe that music should be fun....fist pumpin and grinnin fun

[Mason]

does your band believe that music should be fun....fist pumpin and grinnin fun

The main reason we play is fun. Once it isn't fun you have to ask yourself why you do it. ;)

[Rane Stone]

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times.

WE PUT OUR MUSIC WHERE OUR MOUTH IS! (http://www.myspace.com/dogbonesanctuary)

NO, we are not sappy, crappy, tired or unoriginal. For some, we might not be their cup of tea and that is fine with me cuz' it does not mean you suck. That is no bias, just the truth.

We work HARD for everything we get and are THANKFUL when we get a break.


...most bands have forgotten the lost art of saying thank you. Therein lies one of the BIGGEST problems in Seattle.

[Mason]

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times.

WE PUT OUR MUSIC WHERE OUR MOUTH IS! (http://www.myspace.com/dogbonesanctuary)

NO, we are not sappy, crappy, tired or unoriginal. For some, we might not be their cup of tea and that is fine with me cuz' it does not mean you suck. That is no bias, just the truth.

We work HARD for everything we get and are THANKFUL when we get a break.


...most bands have forgotten the lost art of saying thank you. Therein lies one of the BIGGEST problems in Seattle.

I hear you but I don't know what you are saying.

[Rane Stone]

I hear you but I don't know what you are saying.WOW!
Well that is a bummer, cuz' I got what you said, and that is why I said what I said, and now your saying that you don't know what I said, when it was based off of what you said in the first place, which is why I said what I said, but you don't know what I am saying.

;-)

[Mason]

;) that's deep...

[spacerawk]

our bar tab alone at Linda's over the last year should have secured us a slot at the block party.

however, my inability to spell in a drunken rant is a much more suitable way to become infamous

[TurnToFall]

If that other guy doesn't take the spot offered, my band would love to play. In fact, we'd pretty much do anything for a spot at the block party. Like it or not The Stranger represents the music lovers in this town. And they cover some pretty decent music, while ignoring some other music. Nothing is perfect. I think it is about how well you can play, and who you know and things like style and image. It always has been since before The Beatles.

But oh yeah, we rock, we could sell 100+ tickets to the block party, we practice right there between Pike and Pine, right across the street from The Stranger Offices. I've been doing music in Seattle for 4 years. It'd be nice for our existence to be acknowledged. Hey, at least they are finally printing our shows in the calendar!

[Mason]

But would you sacrafice your own integrity to get a slot? Oh, wait a minute, you just did...

[TurnToFall]

But would you sacr(i)fice your own integrity to get a slot? Oh, wait a minute, you just did...

Integrity is all in the music, which I would never sacrifice.

[Mason]

Integrity is all in the music, which I would never sacrifice.

Great answer ;)

[Jennifer Maerz]

Or the press or the airtime. Somehow getting attention as a band in Seattle has become a popularity contest, but the definition of "cool" in this town is so skewed from what it is elsewhere that to be cool here basically means committing social suicide with the rest of the world. Why the fuck can't it be just about the music? Seriously... the local music press and most of the DJs have some sort of conspiracy to only highlight crappy boring music for some reason. KEXP is almost unlistenable most of the time. What the fuck is playing on there right now? Some crap ass jazz from the 50s? WTF? Where's the local rock????


Every so often I hear the same complaint about Seattle having some kind of "conspiracy", like the bookers and the radio DJs and the writers all sit at some bar on Pine St. and decide who's gonna get all the hype. I hate to break the news but there's no such thing. I can only speak for the Stranger, but we cover (and have columns) on everything from alt country and hiphop to opera, avant classical and jazz, noise, metal, punk, pop, electronic music, DJs, rock, and on and on. There's an old image of the Stranger as a paper that only covers, say, Modest Mouse. And yes, if they put out a good record, we're going to cover it. But when you actually break down what we cover week to week, it's not Modest Mouse-level acts 52 weeks a year, it's Boom Bap Project and a new metal record label called Kreation and Schoolyard Heroes and new electronica labels and some twee singer songwriter...a mix of all the different kinds of music people are listening to in this city that inspires us. I get bored only listening to one type of music and we treat the music section the same way--attempting to make it a mix of all kinds of different sounds, approaches, and styles. Whether or not you like the artists we cover is up to the individual, of course, and I'm not going to try and sell every band we cover to every reader out there. But I just wanted to post my two cents on how things work at the Stranger, since I'm the music editor there and I don't make my decisions on bars, blow, or blow jobs, despite what a lovely conspiracy that would make (although probably pretty terrible for my health).

[Mason]

Every so often I hear the same complaint about Seattle having some kind of "conspiracy", like the bookers and the radio DJs and the writers all sit at some bar on Pine St. and decide who's gonna get all the hype. I hate to break the news but there's no such thing. I can only speak for the Stranger, but we cover (and have columns) on everything from alt country and hiphop to opera, avant classical and jazz, noise, metal, punk, pop, electronic music, DJs, rock, and on and on. There's an old image of the Stranger as a paper that only covers, say, Modest Mouse. And yes, if they put out a good record, we're going to cover it. But when you actually break down what we cover week to week, it's not Modest Mouse-level acts 52 weeks a year, it's Boom Bap Project and a new metal record label called Kreation and Schoolyard Heroes and new electronica labels and some twee singer songwriter...a mix of all the different kinds of music people are listening to in this city that inspires us. I get bored only listening to one type of music and we treat the music section the same way--attempting to make it a mix of all kinds of different sounds, approaches, and styles. Whether or not you like the artists we cover is up to the individual, of course, and I'm not going to try and sell every band we cover to every reader out there. But I just wanted to post my two cents on how things work at the Stranger, since I'm the music editor there and I don't make my decisions on bars, blow, or blow jobs, despite what a lovely conspiracy that would make (although probably pretty terrible for my health).

I think ppl just need to take a pill and stop saying their lack of success is due to someone elses actions. If you do not succeed to the level you want, ask yourself; Did I put in the effort required to warrant the level of success I want? If your answer is yes then your music probably just sucks. Which, btw, is not a bad thing as long as you enjoy it.

[manhog]

KEXP is almost unlistenable most of the time. And this suprises you? What radio station is "listenable" MOST of the time? Name ONE. Not an easy task, eh? Nearly ALL radio stations are "unlistenable" most of the time! That said, I'll note that I typically "listen" to KEXP as background sound, as atmospheric ear candy, so to speak. Really LISTENING to music typically does not involve the radio these days. There are very few exceptions... a specialty show here and there, etc... (no matter what city one is in). If ya REALLY wanna LISTEN to music (attentively and passionately), pop in your favorite album or compilation (or podcast from that rare radio show that turns your crank). Don't leave it up to some random DJ to provide "listening" experiences for you. Their job is to please/entertain/stimulate the masses (or, at KEXP, whitey-folk I-Pod Seattle - the people that give them money), not die-hard music LISTENERS (or *YOU*). Shit, KEXP is to twenty/thirty-somethings what KPLU is to forty/fifty-somethings. The feel-good background-soundtrack to their typically mundane and musically-ignorant lives... What the fuck is playing on there right now? Some crap ass jazz from the 50s? "crap ass jazz from the 50's?" That's as retarded a statement as "stupid acid rock from the 60's". I'm a beginning to reckon that you're probably a MORON.WTF? Where's the local rock????
in the fuckin' clubs, of course. Go check it out, buy their CD's, and turn off the fucking radio. Unless ya need some good background tunes while you type on the computer or clean your house. Or if ya happen to forget your CD case 'fore takin' off in your car... ;-) Fuck, download illegal music from the internet if the radio bores you. Anything to distract you from stating the obvious. Let's face it: it is in the SEARCHING that any discerning person finds satisfaction. Sitting back and bitching when it ain't served up to you on a silver "radio" platter is LAME. Face the music: the golden age of radio is OVER and a renaissance won't be taking place anytime soon. One must turn to other "venues" if one is intent on experiencing anything that's cutting edge, etc. As the times change, one must adapt. Music persists, but mediums change. HECK... bitching about radio sucking is like bitching about vaudeville sucking. Get over it and move on. And stay away from satellite radio, unless, of course, you're a yuppie douchebag, or a travelling salesman that spends alota time in his/her car, criss-crossing our great divides... Alrighty then... my rant's done. Have a good one... :-)

[progrockfan]

I'm tending to agree with MoreDrugs on this issue. And manhog, your points are valid, but I am hoping that we can revive radio, and that "true music listeners" do still exist and that it is a viable scene and that we should try to get local media and radio more in line with tapping into that. Maybe I am dreaming to think this will ever happen but I hope it does.

There's an old image of the Stranger as a paper that only covers, say, Modest Mouse. And yes, if they put out a good record, we're going to cover it. But when you actually break down what we cover week to week, it's not Modest Mouse-level acts 52 weeks a year, it's Boom Bap Project and a new metal record label called Kreation and Schoolyard Heroes and new electronica labels and some twee singer songwriter...a mix of all the different kinds of music people are listening to in this city that inspires us.

Jennifer, you escape my wrath because you are the only writer at The Stranger, and the highest ranking official music scene individual in Seattle who pays any attention whatsoever to heavier genres of music like metal, hard rock, prog rock, etc...

For example, you cover The Ruby Doe. They are playing the block party. Yay! But, this is not the only good hard rock band in Seattle. Yeah, they are good, but so are a ton of other bands playing shows constantly around the area.

There are a ton of local bands around here being discussed in other threads that also have some amazing, hard rockin, musically stimulating, intellectually creative and original sounds, and I hope that The Stranger will expand it's coverage of local rock music to include some of them. Right now, these bands are only getting attention in these pitiful niche metal magazines like the Sinner and such, which is really a shame because metal does not describe hard rock, nor progressive rock. Also, these genres are not niche genres that only appeal to geeks or something. They are major styles that will always be popular, and Seattle local bands have a real chance of breaking nationally if the PR/Publicity/Promotion/Marketing engine of Seattle media and radio would just get behind them.

The thing is, Modest Mouse and bands like that are really boring and lame. They can't play their instruments, their songs suck and have no energy to them. This style of music is never going to be a hit nationally. They had one flash in the pan and now it's over so I am hoping that Seattle moves on and forgets about this dark, boring, pretentious era and returns to it's hard rockin roots. The Stranger and especially the Tablet just only seem to be interested in covering this whole artsy fartsy wuss rock that's super boring for some reason. How about tapping into the spirit of rebellion that will always make people want to throw their devil horned hands in the air and RAWK?

Just because a band doesn't fit in the mainstream doesn't make it good. Conversely, just because a band might fit in the mainstream shouldn't exclude it from getting local media attention. Trying too hard to be a non-conformist is extremely unoriginal and boring, and it seems like that's what The Stranger is all about for some reason. It doesn't make you edgy and chic. It makes you boring and pretentious and alienates a ton of good folks.

I used to be a huge Rush fan. I dig Coheed and Cambria. System of a Down and Mars Volta rock! These bands have actual musicians who can play. Amazing drummers and guitarists who play solos. Singers who sing with passion. And ya know what? Fuck whoever wants to make fun of Rush or anyone who likes them. They are one of the greatest bands of all time and you fucking know it and instead of being ashamed to admit to being a fan, you should be ashamed of denying that they are an awesome band. They deserve better than that. WTF is up with the whole cooler than thou thing of it not being cool to like Rush?

I know there are a tremendous number of fans of heavy / progressive rock / metal and they are not all mullet-wearing trailer-trash either. Steve Malkmus is a Rush fan.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

[Jennifer Maerz]

The thing is, Modest Mouse and bands like that are really boring and lame. They can't play their instruments, their songs suck and have no energy to them. This style of music is never going to be a hit nationally. They had one flash in the pan and now it's over so I am hoping that Seattle moves on and forgets about this dark, boring, pretentious era and returns to it's hard rockin roots. The Stranger and especially the Tablet just only seem to be interested in covering this whole artsy fartsy wuss rock that's super boring for some reason. How about tapping into the spirit of rebellion that will always make people want to throw their devil horned hands in the air and RAWK?

Just because a band doesn't fit in the mainstream doesn't make it good. Conversely, just because a band might fit in the mainstream shouldn't exclude it from getting local media attention. Trying too hard to be a non-conformist is extremely unoriginal and boring, and it seems like that's what The Stranger is all about for some reason. It doesn't make you edgy and chic. It makes you boring and pretentious and alienates a ton of good folks.



Hey Progrockfan,
Thanks for the long reponses.....these forums are good places to read local opinions on not only local music but also how it's being covered...and that said I appreciate all the posts here, regardless of whether we agree on issues or not.

I am a little confused though, about where your issues are with the Stranger and even with the music press at large. At the Stranger we've covered Akimbo, Big Business, the Emergency, the Gloryholes, the Abodox, Teen Cthulhu...and a number of other heavy/hard rock acts. I wouldn't say we cover music for the sake of being wierd, we cover stuff that excites us. And yeah, some of that stuff is wierd, but other stuff is just straight up interesting....I love Mars Volta, and locally I see bands like the Blood Brothers and Cobra High (RIP) as two of the few bands really reaching out beyond genre confines to do something as interesting and exciting as those ex-At the Drive In boys. Our music section, like any music section, can and should always be striving to expand coverage, to be work in progress, and to be seeking out new and interesting stuff...to be honest I haven't heard much progressive rock from the NW that excites me beyond the bands mentioned. That definitely doesn't mean it's not out there. Could be I haven't had time to open a CD pack sent my way yet (we get about 50 CDs a day, both locally and nationally, coming into the office). It could be that I have heard some stuff in that genre and decided to pass on it the same way you pass on Modest Mouse...it all depends....but I'm definitely looking for the next Mars Volta, the next Mastodon, etc, as much as I'm looking for the next interesting sound/band in any genre.

As for Modest Mouse (since that's the example you're using here to define indie rock I'm assuming), the Stranger and the Tablet are far from the only outlets covering that stuff. Mainstream mags like Blender and Rolling Stone down to smaller rags like Magnet and popular music sites like Pitchfork--even the MTV and big music fests of the world--all give them coverage. Now it's obvious they're not your thing. That's cool....my job isn't to try and convince you to run out and buy all their records. But there is validity in covering them, especially if writers at the Stranger are into their music and they're also big on a national scale..contrary to what you wrote, their success is only getting stronger. MM are a huge band nationally. They have commercial radio hits, they play Saturday Night Live, they curated All Tomorrow's Parties music fest earlier this year, Issac Brock is producing new records for Sub Pop...etc.

But again, I'm not an all MM all the time listener either....right now I'm the most stoked on bands like Death From Above, Dungen, Diamond Nights, Mars Volta, Mastodon and the like....bands that both fit in your more typical rock cannon and bust out beyond it, and bands far from the indie rock thing...

Anyway, my $.05 on the issues...

[progrockfan]

Well Jennifer, I am glad there is someone like you working at The Stranger. I hope they give you more space to cover more local bands. You have good taste.

My point about MM is that they are nowhere near as big(in my opinion) as System of a Down or Foo Fighters or Green Day or even Blink 182. Now those bands are pretty much pop rock, but the foo and SOAD have some progressive elements and at least Blink 182 has an amazing drummer. The one MM hit had a decent guitar melody that I actually liked. The 4 on the floor subdued disco beat was interesting, but the dudes voice! ugh.... Someone needs to bitch slap his whiny ass. Death Cab has some decent instrumentation on some of their stuff. Indie isn't all bad. Elliott Smith is like only the 2nd or 3rd greatest songwriter of all time and I'm sure he qualifies as indie (doesn't he?).

My fear about The Stranger is that it, and KEXP and the tablet, represent the old guard of the seattle music scene. The guard that existed long before grunge. The people who probably hated grunge because it caused a national spotlight to be cast on Seattle and an influx of hated outsiders and their fancy SUVs and money and social skills. OK, well, maybe I am one of those, because I moved here, and I loved grunge. Nirvana was one of my favorite bands of all time. To me it seems like if Nirvana or a band like them, or the evolution of grunge, were to come along right now, those same forces would ignore it, or actively suppress it, intentionally to prevent that national spotlight from once again shining on Seattle. This would not be done as a conspiracy, but because stylistically, radio-friendly-heavy-rock is not considered "cool" in Seattle.

Check out some of the bands mentioned in the other threads in this forum like the myspace bands links and the metal is cheesy thread. There are some good ones in there. I could do some research and compile a list for you if that would help.

Now get back to listening to those demos!!! :-D

[manhog]

I love Mars Volta

fyi, someone has posted some Mars Volta shows for easy
download: http://libra.kpsi.pl/marsvolt/tmv/Audio/TMV/

AND some At the Drive In shows here: (all in mp3 format)
**** http://libra.kpsi.pl/marsvolt/tmv/Audio/ATDI/ ****

mandatory SEATTLE CONTENT FACTOR (important!):
**** included above is a RCKNDY ATDI show! ****

yada yada yada

p.s. - use a download manager and suck up all the mp3s
without having to click on each one... if you're on a PC,
try out - http://www.freshdevices.com/freshdown.html
and toggle the simultaneous connections setting (1 to 4)
depending on how fast/robust your system/connection is

[progrockfan]

from my research it seems like the following are the best hard rock bands in Seattle:

Vendetta Red, Common Heroes, Visqueen, Second Coming, Drop Six, Gatsby's American Dream, Supersuckers, The Lashes, XXX Audio, Room Zero, The Zero Points, Windowpane, AltaRego, The Myriad, Turn to Fall, The Divorce, Dog Bone Sanctuary, Drown Mary, Utterance, Zeke, River Red, Vindaloo, The Fall of Troy, Charlie Drown, The Beautiful Mothers, Point One, Playing Enemy, Underride, Plaster, Dolour, Cobra High, Dangermart, Alien Crime Syndicate, Danger Radio, Peepshow, Ruby Doe, Rishloo, The Blood Brothers Band

In my opinion, all these bands deserve more coverage in The Stranger and airplay on local radio. Hell... let's get them all together for a late summer blowout rock concert at an outdoor venue... Volunteer Park!!! YEAH!!! That would so fuckin rock.

Thanks to "RawkBabe" for pointing many of these hidden gems out.

[manhog]

from my research it seems like the following are the best hard rock bands in Seattle: Vendetta Red, Common Heroes, Visqueen, Second Coming, Drop Six, Gatsby's American Dream, Supersuckers, The Lashes, XXX Audio, Room Zero, The Zero Points, Windowpane, AltaRego, The Myriad, Turn to Fall, The Divorce, Dog Bone Sanctuary, Drown Mary, Utterance, Zeke, River Red, Vindaloo, The Fall of Troy, Charlie Drown, The Beautiful Mothers, Point One, Playing Enemy, Underride, Plaster, Dolour, Cobra High, Dangermart, Alien Crime Syndicate, Danger Radio, Peepshow, Ruby Doe, Rishloo, The Blood Brothers Band
In my opinion, all these bands deserve more coverage in The Stranger and airplay on local radio. Hell... let's get them all together for a late summer blowout rock concert at an outdoor venue... Volunteer Park!!! YEAH!!! That would so fuckin rock.
Thanks to "RawkBabe" for pointing many of these hidden gems out.

You've got some good bands in there, but you've got some pure fuckin cheese mixed in with them. i don't know where to start. how bout PEEPSHOW. that there's some fucking FORGETTABLE post-grunge modern-rockradio-whore SHIT. here's the evidence: http://www.peepshowrocks.com

fuckin CREED's more interesting than these wankers, 2 put it into perspective.

shit soundz cool pumped over the sound system at the mall food court though.

and i bet the token rich dude in the band (there HAS to be one) throws some bitchin parties. so, come to think of it, i take all this back. forget i said it...

;-)

p.s. - maybe the token rich dude in Peepshow could BUY some coverage in the Stranger when they have their annual auction. and i bet lots of folks would pick up a Stranger with a big "Peepshow" thing splashed on the cover.

[progrockfan]

See, this is one of the attitudes I think holds Seattle's music scene back. Just because a band sounds too commercial or radio friendly, they get dissed. Some people really like creed! Should those people be made fun of? Maybe. But at the same time, I think pretty much any local band here would be dumbasses not to take a spot opening for creed, and The Stranger would be stupid not to include Creed fans in their target market. Both Creed and Peepshow have a few catchy songs and at least they are well practiced and put together, if a bit sugar coated and perhaps boring. The singer has an emotionally evocative voice. There's always a bright side. Why is Seattle always so quick to prove how sophisticated it is by harshing on the mainstream and being so ultra negative and cynical?

No Peepshow are not the vanguard of experimental rock. They are a lot better than most of the crap being played on KEXP though. And, they have more of a chance of touring or getting a hit outside of Seattle than a ton of local bands so why not support that? It's like people in this town are just so fucking jealous and anyone who tries to make commercially viable music is just spit on and sabotaged.

[manhog]

See, this is one of the attitudes I think holds Seattle's music scene back. Just because a band sounds too commercial or radio friendly, they get dissed..

WRONG. I'm dissing them becuase they suck. My favorite bands include "commercial" bands... I don't draw these sorts of asinine lines. Some in the "indie" scene, admitedly, are so caught up with whether something is "independent" or not that their ears get clogged up, and they don't hear shit simply for what it is. That ain't me.

Some people really like creed! Should those people be made fun of? Maybe.

Maybe? What the fuck sorta devils-advocate bullshit is that? (or jesus-advocate crap, perhaps... ;-) FUCK YEAH they should be made fun of.

Or shit, MAYBE NOT, come to think of it, as "adversity" of this sort only "makes them stronger" and more "determined" to "triumph" over their "adversaries"...etc... ;-)

But at the same time, I think pretty much any local band here would be dumbasses not to take a spot opening for creed, and The Stranger would be stupid not to include Creed fans in their target market. Both Creed and Peepshow have a few catchy songs and at least they are well practiced and put together, if a bit sugar coated and perhaps boring. The singer has an emotionally evocative voice. There's always a bright side. .

Ah, so we've gone from one of the "best hard rock bands in Seattle" to your new description, stating that Peepshow has "a few catchy songs" which are "perhaps boring"... I'm gonna let that stand and fester on it's own. No comment. And I'm not gonna touch your "there's always a bright side" statement. It's fucking perfect as it is. I am going to have it framed for a dentist friend of mine, to put on his waiting room wall.

Why is Seattle always so quick to prove how sophisticated it is by harshing on the mainstream and being so ultra negative and cynical?

Since when is talking about the obvious fact that most mainstream music EATS SHIT and the fact that band XYZ is fucking cheesy and sucky some sort of "cynical" attitude???? WTF? Dude: I'm shining a big fucking beacon of hopeful light on things. Fucking Jesus has a hard on for my insight. God damn. "LIGHTEN UP, FRANCIS!" ;-)

No Peepshow are not the vanguard of experimental rock. They are a lot better than most of the crap being played on KEXP though.

Being better than "crap" makes them "one of the best"? Your powers of deduction are so amazing that my sphincter muscles have been scared loose, and poop's running down my leg as I cower in the corner, shuddering with fear in the presence of your awe-inspiring logic...

And, they have more of a chance of touring or getting a hit outside of Seattle than a ton of local bands so why not support that?

I am speechless. You're a genius. I think I am going to go buy a latte at Starbucks in order to support their growing popularity in St. Genevieve, Missouri. I am going to hop every local winning team's bandwagon from now on, thanks to you!!! :-) Every business, every athlete, every, every, every.... shit, why am I typing this? I should be ORGANIZING!!!!!

It's like people in this town are just so fucking jealous and anyone who tries to make commercially viable music is just spit on and sabotaged.

Let me clarify things for you: I am "sabotaging" Peepshow's career because they BLOW (*not* because they are "mainstream" or whatever). And I'm not speaking for Seattle, just for myself. Dig?

Oh, and I also wanted to note that my "research" into the "best hard rock bands" in Seattle has yielded different results than yours. An opposing viewpoint. Can you wrap your paranoid mind around something as simple as that?

Acerbically yours,
manhog

p.s. - If I was Peepshow I would move to Los Angeles, the hub of the "music biz"... or Missouri, where they might find an even bigger audience. And don't gimme any shit for "making fun" of Missouri. I used to live there and know the "market" very well. Peepshow is the perfect soundtrack for the "comedowns" being experienced by the many aging Limp Bizkit fans round there. The time is right!!!!!! Boi!!!!!

[segal]

Mercy, manhog, that was an impressive display of point-debunking. Testify, brother, testify. (I am <i>not</i> being sarcastic.)

[progrockfan]

manhog, I bow to your debate skills. I just want to say that I would personally rather listen to Peepshow, or Creed, or Nickelback than much of the music being played on KEXP or that is featured in the Stranger. This is not my favorite genre of music and I like more artistically interesting and original music a lot better, but at least these bands are well practiced, produced and have some emotion in their singer's voices, something that I personally cannot do without, and which a lot of indie lacks. They all have better singers (though less original music) than modest mouse. I do think there is an anti-mainstream theme to a lot of the indie-heads running the music scene in this town, and it makes for a lot of boring and emotionally detached sounding music that I personally dislike.

[segal]

manhog, I bow to your debate skills. I just want to say that I would personally rather listen to Peepshow, or Creed, or Nickelback than much of the music being played on KEXP or that is featured in the Stranger. This is not my favorite genre of music and I like more artistically interesting and original music a lot better, but at least these bands are well practiced, produced and have some emotion in their singer's voices, something that I personally cannot do without, and which a lot of indie lacks. They all have better singers (though less original music) than modest mouse. I do think there is an anti-mainstream theme to a lot of the indie-heads running the music scene in this town, and it makes for a lot of boring and emotionally detached sounding music that I personally dislike.
Most of KEXP's programming is bland, Gap/Urban Outfitters/Pitchfork-approved indie rock. It's wrong to think KEXP and The Stranger's aesthetics are in lockstep: The Stranger's music coverage is much more expansive than what KEXP typically broadcasts. To uphold Creed and Nickelback as paragons of rock is just laughable. It's never been easier—with teh Internetz and all—to dig below the middlebrow surface of music and find great bands deviating from the status woe.

[Jennifer Maerz]

Most of KEXP's programming is bland, Gap/Urban Outfitters/Pitchfork-approved indie rock. It's wrong to think KEXP and The Stranger's aesthetics are in lockstep: The Stranger's music coverage is much more expansive than what KEXP typically broadcasts.

I have to respectfully disagree with my coworker here. I love the punk show, I've been exposed to new cool shit on the world pop show, reggae show, and Greg Vandy's show, AudiOasis (sp?) supports a lot of local bands, John in the Morning's show is a good way to hear new national bands first....there's a lot of good that KEXP brings to Seattle. Especially when you go to a place like, say, Portland, and there's nothing but shit on the radio, 24-7 (with the exception of the occasional KGON randomly great classic rock block).

I've said it in print before and I still wish that KEXP would mix in the heavier/wierder/more out there stuff into the afternoon shows (when John Richards was subbing in the afternoon last week I heard the Emergency, Death From Above, and Rock n Roll Soldiers. It was great to hear a more rockin' lineup...I'd love even crazier shit on that station as well) but I'm not dismissive of the station as a whole.

I definitely think that KEXP needs a metal show...and anyone who agrees should email the station. Their punk show seemed to come about in large part because the punk community was so vocal about it. Seattle has a huge community that thrives on metal, and while the Sonic Reducer DJs do a great job folding metal into their show, it would be great to have a separate show for just that genre alone.

While our coverage of bands isn't in lockstep, I do think that KEXP and the Stranger have a mission in common, which is to shine the spotlight on independent/smaller/struggling/local/fringe artists, whatever that means to both our writers and their DJs. The sap that is Creed, Nickleback, and the like has never been something I could passionately cover in any way, shape or form. Although the same is true for U2. Enough with that band already. Bono may be music's patron saint when it comes to social causes but their music is tripe.

[chops]

agreed.

be thankful there's a station or two in town that plays any local music at all. and many papers and mags that write about it.

try another city sometime. you won't be so lucky.

if you don't like what you hear/read, do something about it. write in. call. it got us all a couple of punk shows. it gets more local bands played. trends come and go, yes, but maybe that's because those people pushed their trend to the top for now. just you and your bass player calling in or writing isn't going to get you into the top ten.

there's like 13,000 fuckin bands in the seattle area. if everyone got their own positive interview or demo song played...oh forget it.

[TurnToFall]

Woo Hoo! We got played on KISW last night. Yippee!!!

[manhog]

manhog, I bow to your debate skills. I just want to say that I would personally rather listen to Peepshow, or Creed, or Nickelback than much of the music being played on KEXP or that is featured in the Stranger.

My, oh, my! ;-) You've got ISSUES (and I'm not talking about your questionable debate skills!). AND it appears that that your overreaction (a kneejerk search for comfort, away from perceived lands of Stranger lameness, via the godforsaken land of pure, unadulterated SHITE) might be based on a bit of pure ignorance, as Segal succinctly notes in his post below.

Issue #1: Why run off with the shitty-music circus/Peepshow, so to speak, just because you don't like some of the records the "establishment" is playing? Fer cryin' out loud... you talk about KEXP and The Stranger as if they were your square parents, and you were a misguided teenage rebel, starring in a coming-of-age "prequel" to the movie Dumb and Dumber... ;-)

This is not my favorite genre of music and I like more artistically interesting and original music a lot better, but at least these bands are well practiced, produced and have some emotion in their singer's voices, something that I personally cannot do without, and which a lot of indie lacks. They all have better singers (though less original music) than modest mouse.

Wow, what a bum trip.

Issue #2: You talk about "emotion" being so important, yet you do so in such a LIFELESS manner, and seemingly as a champion of FABRICATED feeling (over genuine yet perhaps not outward emotion). What's up with that?

Heck, I'm not a Modest Mouse fan, but you seem to be confusing "emotive" with "emotion" (emotion need not be accompanied with a YARL or YELL in order to qualify as such). Isaac Brock (MM's singer) IS emotional, just not within the emotive paradigm that resonates within the fogged-up lunch-room that houses your conflicted teenage-leveled brain.

Anyhow, whatever the depth of your confusion, progrockfan, you sound like a fictional (and futuristic) assembly-line music-factory "VP" from an as-of-yet unpublished Vonnegut novel called "BLUES HAMMER".... wherein the production of "better singing" (and your entire company, for that matter) is fully based on the genetic "spirit" code contained within a precious double-helixed anal hair "set" found by your company founder while cleaning, as a prematurely balding young man, the hermetically sealed Vegas dressing room toilets belonging to Celine Dion.

I do think there is an anti-mainstream theme to a lot of the indie-heads running the music scene in this town, and it makes for a lot of boring and emotionally detached sounding music that I personally dislike.

Fine, but the fact remains that your solution (championing bunghoolios over blandies) to this legitimate predicament does not make any goddamn sense.

Until next time,
Dr. Manhog

p.s. - Your prescription: take two listens to the album "Street Hassle" by Lou Reed and post back in the morning. Pay special attention to the "bad" production and lack of "practice". And the deadpanned "lack of emotion" (i.e. - "bad" singing). Then write us all a letter with a review of the record. Please be honest. I look forward to our next meeting. And remember, while transcribing your thoughts: "there's always a bright side!" :-)

[manhog]

I definitely think that KEXP needs a metal show...and anyone who agrees should email the station.

Now there's a helluvan idea!!!!! are u listening, progrockfan? Instead of running off the loony-music-caravan deep end, progrockfan, perhaps you could get get behind this, as "PROG" music might get folded in to a show of this nature, now that much of the good prog has a definite metal "feel" to it... or are you a classical-prog-diehard ala Rick Wakeman? ;-) ;-)

Bono may be music's patron saint when it comes to social causes but their music is tripe.

hear ye, hear ye!!!!! and one could certainly question his patron saint credentials. here's some food for thoughts (see the rockrap.com rant below, which, fyi, i only agree with partially. tis interesting nonetheless.).

Oh, and will we see you at the Cap. Hill Block Party, progrockfan? ;-) Or will you be at the "show a block away that anyone who really knows what's going on will come to" (that "spacerawk" will be putting on - see the beginning of this thread). If so, tell us where that's gonna be! (or maybe spacerawk will fess up? pls do so, esp. if there will be a cold keg in da house, etc!)

=======

A few days after the July 2 concerts, Live8 organizers Bob Geldof and Bono traveled to the G8 summit of the world's leading capitalist nations in Edinburgh. They went at the express invitation of British prime minister Tony Blair to discuss the African "debt relief" package promoted by Live8. To the best of our knowledge, Bono and Geldof went into the meetings unaccompanied by a single African or a single poor person of any nation. None of the G8 nations is African. None of the leaders who gathered in Edinburgh is poor. What could G8 leaders have discussed with this pair? Bono and Geldof can't possibly believe that Blair, Bush and the rest don't know the facts---that 35,000 children starved to death worldwide on July 2 and every day afterward. They know because these kids die as a direct result of the policies of the G8 nations, including the massive debts with which poor nations are saddled under the guise of "foreign aid." Bono and Geldof asked the G8 nations to cut in half the debt carried by poor African nations. But if you only have a quarter in your pocket and I say you owe me $50,000,000, what difference does it make if I decide you only owe me $25,000,000? They also asked the G8 countries to double the value of relief sent to Africa--even though they must know that aid comes with "austerity" requirements that further ruin the lives of the poor and that the nature of that aid makes it easy for corrupt rulers to siphon it off. All of the G8 nations have large-scale domestic poverty problems of their own, although not as glaring as the catastrophic situation in Russia. The disintegration of living standards in the former Soviet Union has been accelerated by the guidance of Bono's good friend, Harvard economist Jeffrey Sachs, to whom the U2 frontman dedicated a song at their recent Madison Square Garden concert. None of the G8 governments is even slightly inclined to end poverty among their own citizens: Bush recently signed a law that prevents heavily indebted Americans from seeking bankruptcy relief. Why do Bono and Geldof believe that these men will listen? Because the Live8 leaders don't say anything the G8 bosses don't want to hear. Bono and Geldof's "debt relief" schemes do nothing to restore any of what has been stolen from poor countries. The poor are not empowered. And, true to their allegiance to the likes of Sachs, the only proposal to end poverty put forward by Live8 leaders is that G8 staple, "free trade." Live8 also did the G8 leaders a huge favor. Gatherings of the powerful are haunted by the specter of the 1999 World Trade Organization summit in Seattle, where tens of thousands marched and rioted to protest "free trade" policies and their consequences. By diverting millions of people with fairytale "solutions," Live8 helped keep the lid on in Edinburgh. What's in it for Geldof, Bono, and the other rock stars? For Geldof, a knighthood and now, a Nobel Peace Prize nomination. For Bono, further confirmation of his own righteousness. For the rest, not much. The Live8 leaders seduce rockers and their audiences by making this claim: We must deal with the world as it is. In that world, only the powerful can make change and the only way to get the powerful to listen is to treat them kindly. The first assumption begs the question, since the nature of the world is very different for even a one-hit wonder than it is for a homeless person or a peasant farmer. The historical evidence for the second two assumptions is nonexistent. Geldof compares the movement he hopes to create to those led by Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela. But none of those movements sent "representatives" on bended knee to ask the rulers to yield. All of them activated the energy and vision of the people affected by the policies of those rulers. All of them grew strong precisely to the degree that they allowed the disenfranchised to speak for themselves. There is no evidence that Geldof, Bono or any of the Live8 leaders from the non-governmental aid organizations reached their conclusions about what Africa needs by consulting poor Africans. Geldof dismisses as "ineffective" all those who criticize him, claiming that they've done nothing because, after all, there's nothing else to do. This is also Bono's justification for working with Bush cabinet members, the most right-wing members of the American Congress (most notoriously, Jesse Helms), and even his little-noted support for anti-Semite evangelist Billy Graham. Don't believe the hype: There is something else to do. Rock stars and their audiences can align themselves with movements led by the poor themselves. There is no nation affected by the G8 policies that lacks such a movement. Some musicians--Steve Earle, rapper Immortal Technique, Tom Morello, and Bruce Springsteen in the U.S., Thomas Mapfumo in Zimbabwe--have lent effective aid to such movements. The results aren't sent out by satellite TV, but the leaders of those movements regularly attest to them and are eager for more involvement by musicians. Rock stars can do a lot to help organizations of the poor: gaining publicity, making connections across state and national borders, raising funds. Instead, we are confronted with the ridiculous spectacle in which RRC, a newsletter for God's sake, is in touch with more poor people than all of the Live8 artists and organizations combined. These range from the MST, Brazil's huge movement of the landless, to the hardy band of sick and disabled TennCare recipients who, at press time, were in the second week of a sit-in at the office of the governor of Tennessee...

[spacerawk]

This is not my favorite genre of music and I like more artistically interesting and original music a lot better, but at least these bands are well practiced, produced and have some emotion in their singer's voices, something that I personally cannot do without, and which a lot of indie lacks.

Bands like Creed and Nickelback are further proof that frat boys shouldn't be allowed to buy musical instruments. If you showed me a press photo of any similar up and coming band I could tell you exactly what they sound like without ever hearing a note. music like that is fucking boring, it's not challenging, it's not interesting, it's not artistic, it has no soul. so what if it sounds "produced". You say you like more artistically interesting and orignal music, that must be your radiohead cd that's sandwiched in between creed and nickelback in you cd changer.


I do think there is an anti-mainstream theme to a lot of the indie-heads running the music scene in this town, and it makes for a lot of boring and emotionally detached sounding music that I personally dislike.

isn't that the whole point of being an "indie-head"? to be anti-mainstream? how can music be boring and emotionally detached when the people making it live to do it? we don't play shows for the $ we can make at the door, we play because we want people to hear our music, we want to meet other bands, make new friends. we want to grow in the community and help our community grow.

like it or not, this is how seattle is, this is the kind of music we like. we want to hear something different, something new, something creative, something exciting. if you want cookie cutter rock you wont find it here. I agree that some indie is getting a little cookie cutter on it's own, but you just have to dig deeper. yeah I wish the daily programs on KEXP were more diverse and more challenging, the only airplay we've ever recieved before 1am was a few plays on audioasis, but it's not KCMU anymore. it's not the same local station that is used to be. but it's still better than anything else out there, and the only music station my radio is ever tuned to.

and no, I will not reveal who we are, not yet...

[segal]

I have to respectfully disagree with my coworker here. I love the punk show, I've been exposed to new cool shit on the world pop show, reggae show, and Greg Vandy's show, AudiOasis (sp?) supports a lot of local bands, John in the Morning's show is a good way to hear new national bands first....there's a lot of good that KEXP brings to Seattle. Especially when you go to a place like, say, Portland, and there's nothing but shit on the radio, 24-7 (with the exception of the occasional KGON randomly great classic rock block).

I've said it in print before and I still wish that KEXP would mix in the heavier/wierder/more out there stuff into the afternoon shows (when John Richards was subbing in the afternoon last week I heard the Emergency, Death From Above, and Rock n Roll Soldiers. It was great to hear a more rockin' lineup...I'd love even crazier shit on that station as well) but I'm not dismissive of the station as a whole.
Granted, KEXP is probably the best station in Seattle. BUT, it could be much better. It shunts its most interesting shows/DJs into time slots that are far from prime time. Why? I dunno. Is there some bottom line a bunch of clandestine bean-counters are watching we don't know about, ensuring that only the safest, blandest music gets broadcast during the hours of heaviest (local) listening? My pet peeve is the way KEXP ignores vast swathes of electronic music, focusing 99% of its scant allotment on vocal/song-based brands of "electronica," as if its listeners can't handle instrumental music. Maybe the station has studies that prove listenership drops precipitously when a human voice isn't heard for more than two minutes at a time…

[Mason]

and no, I will not reveal who we are, not yet...

At the risk of making an enemy (not something I have nor like to have) you need to get over yourself. Noone REALLY gives a shit who you are...

[spacerawk]

At the risk of making an enemy (not something I have nor like to have) you need to get over yourself. Noone REALLY gives a shit who you are...

I'm just having fun. the internet is such a great place to be an asshole isn't it? or in my case, pretentious and full of myself (neither of which I really am). but hey, when your passionate about what you're doing (http://www.myspace.com/foralljoywantseternity), and you're proud of it, and you believe in it, sometimes you make statements like I have.

[poochiekafelnikov]

body adornment/modification, product, body spray, and alleged or denied influences have taken their toll on the music industry....

...Bese panocha de la perra
means that I love you so...
...Bese panocha de la perra
more than you'll ever know...

[Mason]

I'm just having fun. the internet is such a great place to be an asshole isn't it? or in my case, pretentious and full of myself (neither of which I really am). but hey, when your passionate about what you're doing (http://www.myspace.com/foralljoywantseternity), and you're proud of it, and you believe in it, sometimes you make statements like I have.

:shrug: no harm no foul... Everyone has been cought up in the act before. Good luck with your project.

[manhog]

isn't that the whole point of being an "indie-head"? to be anti-mainstream? how can music be boring and emotionally detached when the people making it live to do it? um, like, uh, er... EASILY???
and like, eh, in an instant LA-to-New-York-and-everywhere-in-between-'n'-beyond fucking minute???
I agree that some indie is getting a little cookie cutter on it's own, but you just have to dig deeper. damn straight. to quote Ichiro, "it is in the seeking that one finds satisfaction"

[progrockfan]

woah nelly! Ok well first off... scroll to the bottom to see a subset of my record collection. I actually do not own any creed, nickleback OR modest mouse records. They are the same to me:SUCKASS

MANHOG: I agree with you that indie rock bands whose members "live to play" can still quite easily produce suckass music.

Spacerawk: Your music is good and well put together. It is also very boring, ambient, suitable for putting on before a nice nap. I like this style of music, but it doesn't belong on the radio or anywhere other than the "music to meditate or do yoga to" section of the hippie incense and crystal store. It certainly isn't something that would be worth seeing "live" unless it were to accompany a mass suicide. Please join Tibetan Monks and Zamfir in the new age ambient mood music genre.

Poochie: Hopefully the acid will wear off soon, until then, listen to Spacerawk's band: joy wants eternity

segal: I agree in regards to electronic, or specifically IDM. Who knows why they don't at least bust out some Aphex or Boards or DJ Shadow more often. I have the same complaint in regards to heavy/progressive rock. I think organizing is the only way. They (kexp or the stranger) won't cover a scene until it is seriously in their face with hundreds of fans forcing them to. Hey, at least you get a stage at the block party, so quit your whining.

spacerawk: back to you. I looked it up and did you know that Creed's first 2 albums sold more than 10 times as many albums as all of Modest Mouse's album sales put together? Maybe those millions of people are just brainwashed tools with no taste being force fed frat-boy produced tripe. OR, maybe you and a ton of other "indie-heads" are just complete reactionary lockstep non-conformists who simply thrive on being "alternative" to the mainstream even if it's crap? Non-conformity can become conformity in and of itself. Quit taking it to the extreme. I'm not holding up Creed as the paragon of all that is good in rock, but Modest Mouse isn't that much better. Didn't the guy from Modest Mouse rape some chick? Liberal feminist Seattle should have shredded them years ago and relegated them to oblivion. I'm glad Creed broke up, but man, their fans deserve to enjoy whatever music they enjoy and if Peepshow can take the helm of that genre then I have nothing but best wishes for them. Every style of music has it's place.

As far as Seattle indie bands wanting to "meet other bands, make new friends. we want to grow in the community and help our community grow" - BWA HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah fucking right! Um, yeah, uh, maybe if they look like you, act like you, dress like you and sound like you, but if you hadn't noticed, the Seattle music scene is extremely incestuous, cliquey, and notoriously unfriendly, especially to any band trying to "make it" or that shows even a hint of mainstream in their style. I have been involved in other scenes and there is more backstabbing and ass kissing in this scene than any I have witnessed. Bands don't "support each other" here. They sabotage and steal gear and spread rumors and lies and fuck each other over. MORE SO than in other places. There's no general tolerant spirit of comradery regardless of style here. You have to be the "right band" and know the "right people" to get any kind of love here.

regarding "this is the kind of music we like. we want to hear something different, something new, something creative, something exciting. if you want cookie cutter rock you wont find it here." again, this is laughable. You really have a sugar coated perspective on the Seattle scene, and that's good. It's been kind to you. Maybe because your music is about as exciting as the slugs that live in the parks around here. exciting = loud, in your face, metal, guitar solos, progressive changes, odd time signitures, wild stage presence, etc... These things are frowned upon by the scene. Have you been to an indie rock show? Just go to most of the shows highlighted as "picks" in the Stranger, and you will see about as much excitement as at most funerals. Aging hipsters scratching their beards and proving how esoteric they are in quite conversation while ignoring the band. Yeah, exciting!

Anyway, most of the time, KISW or KNDD has more interesting, exciting, yes even "different" sounding music on it than KEXP.

Jennifer: KEXP most definitely needs an "All that's heavy" show, and hopefully it could feature hard rock, metal, prog rock, math punk etc... I'd be happier than a clam if it only featured independent bands making these kinds of music or even local bands. There have got to be some awesome indie prog/metal/hard rock bands out there that are amazing!!! I wouldn't want to hear JUST a metal show where it's nothing but death and screaming for 2 hours straight. fuck that. I want singing, guitar & drum solos, odd times, lyrics I can understand, etc...

Manhog, I once again bow to your debate skills, and creative use of metaphor and imagery, but on the topic of "championing bunghoolios over blandies", I simply don't see why either should be championed over the other. Either way it sucks.

For those of you who think the depth of my music appreciation is limited to radiohead and creed, feast your eyes on this subset of my record collection. I am proud to say I am a fan of every last one of these bands:

Pavement, Tool, PJ Harvey, Killers, The Fitness, Red House Painters, Broadcast, Sunny Day Real Estate, Franz Ferdinand, Queens Of The Stone Age, Boo Radleys, Macha Loved Bedhead, My Bloody Valentine, Neutral Milk Hotel, Fu Manchu, Frank Black, Pernice Brothers, Kyuss, Clutch, Grandaddy, Nick Drake, Jet, Telescopes, Stereolab, Unwound, Interpol, Slint, Seely, Coheed And Cambria, Kate Bush, Faith No More, Nebula, Jeff Buckley, Of Montreal, Elevator, Catherine Wheel, Slayer, The Music, Stone Roses, Kinski, Spoon, Don Caballero, Kitchens Of Distinction, Postal Service, Flaming Lips, Beachwood Sparks, Stills, System Of A Down, Mars Volta, Sparta, White Stripes, FCS North, Pale Saints, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Kaito, Rush, At The Drive-In, Mastodon, Strokes, Vines, Drop, Muse, Air, Elliott Smith, Death Cab For Cutie, Doves, Swervedriver, Pixies, Japancakes, Radiohead, Blonde Redhead, Lush, Tomahawk, Regia, Dead Kennedys, Cure, Lard, Timeout Drawer, Prodigy, John Coltrane, Yes, Snoop Dogg, Cranberries, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, Bowery Electric, Kruder & Dorfmeister, Soundgarden, Steve Miller, Smiths, Massive Attack, Jesus Lizard, Van Halen, Tenacious D, Mogwai, Cracker, Korn, Talking Heads, Collective Soul, Alice In Chains, Sonic Youth, Disturbed, Coal Chamber, Ozric Tentacles, Incubus, Fear Factory, Dust Brothers, Boards Of Canada, Garbage, Heatmiser, Primus, Staind, Squarepusher, Yello, American Music Club, Meat Puppets, David Bowie, Maids Of Gravity, Darkness, Corrosion Of Conformity, Verve, Clash, Foo Fighters, Led Zeppelin, Beach Boys, Magnetic Fields, Jaco Pastorius, Cocteau Twins, Papa Roach, Underworld, Slowdive, Pink Floyd, White Zombie, Beck, Morrissey, A Perfect Circle, Walt Mink, Mazzy Star, The The, Linkin Park, Ozzy Osbourne, Aphex Twin, Smashing Pumpkins, Curve, New Pornographers, Godsmack, Jimi Hendrix, XTC, De La Soul, Sundays, Melvins, The Who, God Lives Underwater, Hives, Dandy Warhols, Orbital, Whitesnake, Puddle Of Mudd, Evanescence, Ministry, Ziggy Marley & The Melody Makers, Marilyn Manson, ZZ Top, Can, Mother Love Bone, Thievery Corporation, Rollins Band, Travis, Outkast, James, DJ Shadow, Ice-T, Dr. Dre, Helmet, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Misfits, Weather Report, Steve Malkmus &The Jicks, Oasis, Nirvana, Steve Vai, Zappa, Frank And The Mothers Of Invention, Gus Gus, Blur, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Type O Negative, P.O.D., Heart, Velvet Revolver, Blink 182, Clockhammer, Joe Satriani, Guns N' Roses, All-American Rejects, Drowning Pool, Beastie Boys, Coldplay, Rage Against The Machine, Queensryche, Edgar Winter, Southpacific, King Crimson, Symbiosis, Nine Inch Nails, Morcheeba, Police, NWA, Seefeel, Kansas, Neil Young, Jane's Addiction, Tori Amos, Green Day, Yngwie Malmsteen, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Duran Duran, A Tribe Called Quest, Eminem, U2, Pantera, Queen, Cult, Hum

[Jennifer Maerz]

They (kexp or the stranger) won't cover a scene until it is seriously in their face with hundreds of fans forcing them to.... Maybe because your music is about as exciting as the slugs that live in the parks around here. exciting = loud, in your face, metal, guitar solos, progressive changes, odd time signitures, wild stage presence, etc... These things are frowned upon by the scene. Have you been to an indie rock show? Just go to most of the shows highlighted as "picks" in the Stranger, and you will see about as much excitement as at most funerals. Aging hipsters scratching their beards and proving how esoteric they are in quite conversation while ignoring the band. Yeah, exciting!...KEXP most definitely needs an "All that's heavy" show, and hopefully it could feature hard rock, metal, prog rock, math punk etc... I'd be happier than a clam if it only featured independent bands making these kinds of music or even local bands...There have got to be some awesome indie prog/metal/hard rock bands out there that are amazing!!! I wouldn't want to hear JUST a metal show where it's nothing but death and screaming for 2 hours straight. fuck that. I want singing, guitar & drum solos, odd times, lyrics I can understand, etc...


We don't cover bands until their fans number in the hundreds? Um, wrong. Of course we do cover bands that can sell out the Showbox but more often then not we champion the underdogs, the bands that barely fill the spread of space at places like the Fun House, the Tractor, etc. We've written picks and pieces about bands/club nights way before there was a cheering section/fan club to boost their popularity....No Tomorrow, the Emergency, J. Tillman, the Abodox, Boom Bap Project....and on and on. Again, not that everything we cover is some totally under the radar band. But we balance out the bands that do well at Neumo's with the ones that probably never will fill a space that size.

And music is a subjective thing, so while I'm well aware that every band we cover isn't universally exciting to everyone (some of the stuff we cover I don't personally like, but I know there's merit in covering it), I'd hardly say all our show picks are for aging hipsters...bands like the Gossip, Ezee Tiger, Mastodon, Death From Above, Big Business, the Spits, nights like Pho Bang, Comeback...these are just a couple things off the top of my head that we've loved and hyped and whose events/shows are far from the "crossed arms" snore fests you describe. That said, we also do love and write up quieter, mellower, and, well, more stationary bands/shows because some of our writers/readers like softer music as well. So while not everything is like a Blood Brothers show, it's also not all like a Spoon show either.

As for KEXP, they have some contact information on their web site: http://www.kexp.org/about/contact.asp. That lists a number of ways you can get in touch with the station, along with emailing them at dj@kexp.org. We can all debate what we'd like to hear on that station for days but in the end it's more effective to just tell them directly.

[thedeliveryman]

hear ye, hear ye!!!!! and one could certainly question his patron saint credentials. here's some food for thoughts (see the rockrap.com rant below, which, fyi, i only agree with partially. tis interesting nonetheless.).



A few days after the July 2 concerts, Live8 organizers Bob Geldof and Bono traveled to the G8 summit of the world's leading capitalist nations in Edinburgh. They went at the express invitation of British prime minister Tony Blair to discuss the African "debt relief" package promoted by Live8. To the best of our knowledge, Bono and Geldof went into the meetings unaccompanied by a single African or a single poor person of any nation. None of the G8 nations is African. None of the leaders who gathered in Edinburgh is poor. What could G8 leaders have discussed with this pair? Bono and Geldof can't possibly believe that Blair, Bush and the rest don't know the facts---that 35,000 children starved to death worldwide on July 2 and every day afterward. They know because these kids die as a direct result of the policies of the G8 nations, including the massive debts with which poor nations are saddled under the guise of "foreign aid." Bono and Geldof asked the G8 nations to cut in half the debt carried by poor African nations. But if you only have a quarter in your pocket and I say you owe me $50,000,000, what difference does it make if I decide you only owe me $25,000,000? They also asked the G8 countries to double the value of relief sent to Africa--even though they must know that aid comes with "austerity" requirements that further ruin the lives of the poor and that the nature of that aid makes it easy for corrupt rulers to siphon it off. All of the G8 nations have large-scale domestic poverty problems of their own, although not as glaring as the catastrophic situation in Russia. The disintegration of living standards in the former Soviet Union has been accelerated by the guidance of Bono's good friend, Harvard economist Jeffrey Sachs, to whom the U2 frontman dedicated a song at their recent Madison Square Garden concert. None of the G8 governments is even slightly inclined to end poverty among their own citizens: Bush recently signed a law that prevents heavily indebted Americans from seeking bankruptcy relief. Why do Bono and Geldof believe that these men will listen? Because the Live8 leaders don't say anything the G8 bosses don't want to hear. Bono and Geldof's "debt relief" schemes do nothing to restore any of what has been stolen from poor countries. The poor are not empowered. And, true to their allegiance to the likes of Sachs, the only proposal to end poverty put forward by Live8 leaders is that G8 staple, "free trade." Live8 also did the G8 leaders a huge favor. Gatherings of the powerful are haunted by the specter of the 1999 World Trade Organization summit in Seattle, where tens of thousands marched and rioted to protest "free trade" policies and their consequences. By diverting millions of people with fairytale "solutions," Live8 helped keep the lid on in Edinburgh. What's in it for Geldof, Bono, and the other rock stars? For Geldof, a knighthood and now, a Nobel Peace Prize nomination. For Bono, further confirmation of his own righteousness. For the rest, not much. The Live8 leaders seduce rockers and their audiences by making this claim: We must deal with the world as it is. In that world, only the powerful can make change and the only way to get the powerful to listen is to treat them kindly. The first assumption begs the question, since the nature of the world is very different for even a one-hit wonder than it is for a homeless person or a peasant farmer. The historical evidence for the second two assumptions is nonexistent. Geldof compares the movement he hopes to create to those led by Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela. But none of those movements sent "representatives" on bended knee to ask the rulers to yield. All of them activated the energy and vision of the people affected by the policies of those rulers. All of them grew strong precisely to the degree that they allowed the disenfranchised to speak for themselves. There is no evidence that Geldof, Bono or any of the Live8 leaders from the non-governmental aid organizations reached their conclusions about what Africa needs by consulting poor Africans. Geldof dismisses as "ineffective" all those who criticize him, claiming that they've done nothing because, after all, there's nothing else to do. This is also Bono's justification for working with Bush cabinet members, the most right-wing members of the American Congress (most notoriously, Jesse Helms), and even his little-noted support for anti-Semite evangelist Billy Graham. Don't believe the hype: There is something else to do. Rock stars and their audiences can align themselves with movements led by the poor themselves. There is no nation affected by the G8 policies that lacks such a movement. Some musicians--Steve Earle, rapper Immortal Technique, Tom Morello, and Bruce Springsteen in the U.S., Thomas Mapfumo in Zimbabwe--have lent effective aid to such movements. The results aren't sent out by satellite TV, but the leaders of those movements regularly attest to them and are eager for more involvement by musicians. Rock stars can do a lot to help organizations of the poor: gaining publicity, making connections across state and national borders, raising funds. Instead, we are confronted with the ridiculous spectacle in which RRC, a newsletter for God's sake, is in touch with more poor people than all of the Live8 artists and organizations combined. These range from the MST, Brazil's huge movement of the landless, to the hardy band of sick and disabled TennCare recipients who, at press time, were in the second week of a sit-in at the office of the governor of Tennessee...

You need to shut the fuck up asshole. What the HELL have you ever done? I'm not a huge fan of Bono's music, but I will say he is an amazing human being. Instead of wasting his time, money and influence he is actually trying to help others. Not for personal gain, not for recognition, but because he believes what he is doing is right. The amount of good he has accomplished COMPLETELY overshadows any aspect of his personality you may not like. The world needs less self-righteous dickwads that peddle second-hand information from questionable sources and more people like Bono. I am the most liberal person on Earth, but it's people like you that gave Conservatives the term "liberal whining". Get the fuck over yourself and just be happy that Bono has done something good, while you have sat on your ass and done NOTHING.

okay, end of rant.

[spacerawk]

Spacerawk: Your music is good and well put together. It is also very boring, ambient, suitable for putting on before a nice nap. I like this style of music, but it doesn't belong on the radio or anywhere other than the "music to meditate or do yoga to" section of the hippie incense and crystal store. It certainly isn't something that would be worth seeing "live" unless it were to accompany a mass suicide. Please join Tibetan Monks and Zamfir in the new age ambient mood music genre.


hahaha, well if you ever make the long hike down from that colossal soap box you're on I suggest you come to a show, I assure you it's worth it and there's no mass suicides involved.

[dan10things]

The Stranger and especially the Tablet just only seem to be interested in covering this whole artsy fartsy wuss rock that's super boring for some reason.

Ha ha ha. While both publications write about a wide variety of music including popular indie rock, if you know anything about Jennifer or me (music ed. of Tablet) we go mainly to rock/punk/hardcore/heavy rock shows and it's the type of music both of us write most about. Pretty much all I write about is punk or heavy rock. I probably listen to alot heavier music than you since I find prog rock a little on the artsy fartsy boring end of rock'n'roll. I hate Modest Mouse, love Black Flag and Minor Threat. But the thing is about being a music editor is you can't let your tastes dictate all the coverage, and if you fail to cover bands that are making the news with tours and new CDs, you will be letting down your readers. That's the shit people want to read and pick up your publication for.

As far as local coverage, I can only speak from experience doing a punk zine for 12 years and Tablet for 5, the genre that most poorly promotes themselves in Seattle is metal. They don't send in CDs for review, they don't invite you to their shows, they don't send you emails about their band - with the exception of a few of the more active bands on SMO (Clark from the Braindead would be an example of someone that knows how to promote his band). And guess what, those "wussy boring indie rock" bands that hang out at the Cha Cha doing coke promote the hell out of their bands, play a lot of shows and release a lot of music. So people pay attention. Believe me, if there were 100 great heavy bands in this town putting out CDs and playing local clubs alot, I'd be more than willing to give them a ton of coverage in Tablet, that's the kind of music I listen to 90% of the time.

[progrockfan]

Ha ha ha. While both publications write about a wide variety of music including popular indie rock, if you know anything about Jennifer or me (music ed. of Tablet) we go mainly to rock/punk/hardcore/heavy rock shows and it's the type of music both of us write most about. Pretty much all I write about is punk or heavy rock. I probably listen to alot heavier music than you since I find prog rock a little on the artsy fartsy boring end of rock'n'roll. I hate Modest Mouse, love Black Flag and Minor Threat. But the thing is about being a music editor is you can't let your tastes dictate all the coverage, and if you fail to cover bands that are making the news with tours and new CDs, you will be letting down your readers. That's the shit people want to read and pick up your publication for.

As far as local coverage, I can only speak from experience doing a punk zine for 12 years and Tablet for 5, the genre that most poorly promotes themselves in Seattle is metal. They don't send in CDs for review, they don't invite you to their shows, they don't send you emails about their band - with the exception of a few of the more active bands on SMO (Clark from the Braindead would be an example of someone that knows how to promote his band). And guess what, those "wussy boring indie rock" bands that hang out at the Cha Cha doing coke promote the hell out of their bands, play a lot of shows and release a lot of music. So people pay attention. Believe me, if there were 100 great heavy bands in this town putting out CDs and playing local clubs alot, I'd be more than willing to give them a ton of coverage in Tablet, that's the kind of music I listen to 90% of the time.

Well Dan, I don't know about 100, but here are 38 whose music I personally enjoyed and who seem to be promoting themselves quite well:

Vendetta Red, Common Heroes, Visqueen, Second Coming, Drop Six, Gatsby's American Dream, Supersuckers, The Lashes, XXX Audio, Room Zero, The Zero Points, Windowpane, AltaRego, The Myriad, Turn to Fall, The Divorce, Dog Bone Sanctuary, Drown Mary, Utterance, Zeke, River Red, Vindaloo, The Fall of Troy, Charlie Drown, The Beautiful Mothers, Point One, Playing Enemy, Underride, Plaster, Dolour, Cobra High, Dangermart, Alien Crime Syndicate, Danger Radio, Peepshow, Ruby Doe, Rishloo, The Blood Brothers Band

Some of these you cover, others you don't. You need to cover the ones you don't and boost coverage of the ones you already do. Also, don't eschew bands simply because they are well produced or "mainstream" sounding. Please. Also, you could try to help these bands promote themselves more effectively. Yes, by actually contacting them and giving them advice and/or talking about them to music scene peoples, getting them bookings, hooking them up with other bands, radio play etc...

I know you do a lot already to help the scene, so don't think I am taking you for granted or saying you don't do enough, but, you could always do more.

It seems like even within prog there are numerous branches. There's progressive metal, progressive alternative, jazz-rock-fusion, etc... The progressive metal and alternative genres are the ones I feel have a strong showing in Seattle bands and that would benefit from some added coverage. Especially the progressive-alternative genre, with it's mainstream-mass-marketability, the fact that Seattle historically has been a hotbed for Alternative rock, and the fact that adding in progressive/musically interesting elements / musicianship is what is finally redeeming this genre from descending into nu-metal and post-grunge lameness, all add up to the fact that there could be an explosion of progressive rock on a national level (mars volta / SOAD) and I'd love to see it take hold in Seattle.

[dan10things]

W
My fear about The Stranger is that it, and KEXP and the tablet, represent the old guard of the seattle music scene. The guard that existed long before grunge. The people who probably hated grunge because it caused a national spotlight to be cast on Seattle and an influx of hated outsiders and their fancy SUVs and money and social skills. OK, well, maybe I am one of those, because I moved here, and I loved grunge. Nirvana was one of my favorite bands of all time. To me it seems like if Nirvana or a band like them, or the evolution of grunge, were to come along right now, those same forces would ignore it, or actively suppress it, intentionally to prevent that national spotlight from once again shining on Seattle. This would not be done as a conspiracy, but because stylistically, radio-friendly-heavy-rock is not considered "cool" in Seattle.

The Stranger and Tablet all started after the grunge explosion, they aren't part of any old guard. I loved grunge, I bought every record that came out on Amphetamine Reptile, Treehouse, Boner, Sub Pop, etc. in that era and caught all of the heavier grunge bands at places like Off Ramp. I don't think any of those bands were radio friendly heavy rock, I personally was quite suprised when Nirvana broke as big as they did (hell, I went to their free record release show at Peaches, there were maybe 200 people there). Grunge wasn't as commercial as you seem to think, it's roots were in punk rock and heavy metal. Bands like the Melvins, Tad, Mudhoney, Nirvana, Babes in Toyland, the Cows, the Jesus Lizard, Helmet, Lubricated Goat, the Fluid, etc. were loud and heavy as fuck. And absolutely great live.

The national spotlight does shine on Seattle quite often, but probably not on bands you like. I think you have completely off-base assumptions going on. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you play in a commercial rock band that doesn't get much press and you are bitter about it. My take on that type of rock - it's boring. And commercial music can get covered in commercial publications. Punk, hardcore, grunge, stoner rock, death metal, crust, etc. were all influenced by '70s and '80s commercial rock, but infuse(d) more energy and excitement in it that was missing from the commercialized sound. To do that kinda rock today you have to give it a twist, you have to make it unique and interesting. Mico De Noche take some of that grunge sound, but uniquely mix in their own brand of metal. The Blood Brothers smash down doors with post-hardcore chaos. The Ruby Doe add mathrock into the mix. Hell's Promise play upon the cheese of '80s metal. Himsa combine more commercial heavy metal with hardcore. The Valley have hints of pop punk laced into their heavy as fuck guitars. Plaster rocks the fuck out, but has hints of garage rock in their catchy guitars. There are tons more great hardcore, metal, rock and punk bands in Seattle, these are just a few that are out playing a lot of live shows or have recent CDs out and are each unique in their own way. \m/

[Mason]

I have decided this progrock fella has no idea what he/she is talking about. Boost coverage for The Lashes, Zeke, etc? You are on crack brother...

[dan10things]

Some of these you cover, others you don't. You need to cover the ones you don't and boost coverage of the ones you already do. Also, don't eschew bands simply because they are well produced or "mainstream" sounding. Please. Also, you could try to help these bands promote themselves more effectively. Yes, by actually contacting them and giving them advice and/or talking about them to music scene peoples, getting them bookings, hooking them up with other bands, radio play etc...

I know you do a lot already to help the scene, so don't think I am taking you for granted or saying you don't do enough, but, you could always do more.

It seems like even within prog there are numerous branches. There's progressive metal, progressive alternative, jazz-rock-fusion, etc... The progressive metal and alternative genres are the ones I feel have a strong showing in Seattle bands and that would benefit from some added coverage. Especially the progressive-alternative genre, with it's mainstream-mass-marketability, the fact that Seattle historically has been a hotbed for Alternative rock, and the fact that adding in progressive/musically interesting elements / musicianship is what is finally redeeming this genre from descending into nu-metal and post-grunge lameness, all add up to the fact that there could be an explosion of progressive rock on a national level (mars volta / SOAD) and I'd love to see it take hold in Seattle.

Some of these bands suck and there is no way I "need to cover" any of them. I do cover the ones I like. What if I were to tell you what music your band needs to play. What types of guitars and amps you should use. What type of mics and cords. You would and should tell me to fuck off. Kindly give me the same respece and don't tell me what bands I need to cover. I should cover and write about what the fuck I want to write about or what my writers want to write about. Period.

If the music you like isn't being covered in the local press, stop fucking whining like a baby about it and start your own publication. I was where you are at 15 years ago in regards to punk and hardcore and Seattle's press. No one wrote about the music I loved, so I started my own publication to cover it, released comp CDs of local punk bands and promoted the hell out of the bands I loved. I did it again when we started Tablet. That was before Jennifer was around and the Stranger covered very little punk and heavy rock, it was the Kathleen Wilson show. I specifically got involved to offer more coverage for bands I like. I totally think the Stranger's music coverage has improved, Jennifer likes a lot of heavier rock and punk and is a great writer, she was a fresh breath of air. Are all the bands in town being covered by two publications? Nope. And I don't think you should expect them to be either.

And as much as you want to hype prog rock I think it fucking blows. It's boring, it's old, it's slow, it doesn't usually have enough balls to it for me to rock out. I'd rather have my eyes stabbed by forks than listen to most prog rock bands. Think prog rock bands deserve press and are exciting? Good for you, start a prog rock mag.

[progrockfan]

The Ruby Doe add mathrock into the mix.

This is what I am talking about! That's why they are worth covering!!! It's possible to be mathy and mainstream at the same time. System of a Down do it. And no, I am not in a band. I'm a facilitator, a promoter, a fan, an evangelist.

And when I mention bands that do receive coverage, the point is I am suggesting to bring the lesser known bands into the same spotlight as those more highly covered bands. There's room for a lot more rock in this town, and just because it might sound like a good soundtrack to the OC doesn't mean it isn't worth listening to. The fact of the matter is that mainstream media simply WON'T cover bands that don't have major record deals (usually) so therefore local indie bands whose sounds flirt with the mainstream are totally fucked over for coverage. The indie press doesn't want them because they are anti-mainstream. The mainstream press doesn't want them because they are in clear channel's back pocket. There has to be an overlap! Indie rock scenes should show that they can produce and support music that has every bit of commercial viability as anything else out there.

I just think this whole anti-mainstream/commercial rock thing is fucking retarded. I've talked to a lot of bands and fans at shows and they are just extremely frustrated with how Seattle is such a catch-22 for any band that has the potential of getting a radio hit. I really don't see why Modest Mouse and System of a Down can't share the same stage, and invite a ton of bands in between to join them. Can't we all just get along?

Maybe I am clueless... I just go to a lot of shows and hear a lot of great bands that NEVER get mentioned in the indie press in this town and it frustrates me. Plenty of others have complained about this phenomenon as well so there has to be some truth to it.

[progrockfan]

And as much as you want to hype prog rock I think it fucking blows. It's boring, it's old, it's slow, it doesn't usually have enough balls to it for me to rock out. I'd rather have my eyes stabbed by forks than listen to most prog rock bands. Think prog rock bands deserve press and are exciting? Good for you, start a prog rock mag.

I thought you said your own tastes shouldn't dictate what gets covered? The recent porcupine tree performance at the crocodile was completely packed. They are a prog rock band and Seattle loves them. To me, that says they deserve coverage. Are System of a Down and Mars Volta boring and slow and old? They are prog rock too. And so are Queens of the Stone Age, Foo Fighters, Mastodon, and any other band that has a mathy influence. Is there a difference between prog and math-rock? If so then I am unaware and maybe I am promoting the wrong genre. I'm talking about rock that features amazing musicianship, solos, and musically challenging structure as well as the whole powerful melodic vocals thing. What would that be called? Also, what is your opinion on Coheed & Cambria? What about old Rush?

[dan10things]

This is what I am talking about! That's why they are worth covering!!! It's possible to be mathy and mainstream at the same time. System of a Down do it. And no, I am not in a band. I'm a facilitator, a promoter, a fan, an evangelist.

Both the Stranger and Tablet have covered the Ruby Doe a lot - interviews, pictures, music reviews. And System of a Down are horrible... that's whiteboy rap metal crap. System of a Down don't need press in indie publications, they get tons of radio airplay and mainstream press.

And when I mention bands that do receive coverage, the point is I am suggesting to bring the lesser known bands into the same spotlight as those more highly covered bands.

You can't give lesser known bands the same level of coverage. Readers pick up a magazine or tabloid for the the regular columns and the big interviews. Those big interviews can be bands like the Blood Brothers when they have a new CD out, but it can't be a band that no one knows. You can do smaller interviews with those types of bands, review their CDs, plug them in columns, shorter stuff that people will still read even though they might not recognize the band name. That's just the reality of putting out a publication, and both the Stranger and Tablet plug a ton of lesser known local and touring bands this way. That's pretty much all I plug in my column every month. [/QUOTE]

Indie rock scenes should show that they can produce and support music that has every bit of commercial viability as anything else out there. I just think this whole anti-mainstream/commercial rock thing is fucking retarded. I've talked to a lot of bands and fans at shows and they are just extremely frustrated with how Seattle is such a catch-22 for any band that has the potential of getting a radio hit. I really don't see why Modest Mouse and System of a Down can't share the same stage, and invite a ton of bands in between to join them. Can't we all just get along?

I could give a rat's ass about about commercial viability and what's mainstream or not, that's just not a factor in the music I cover. I write about music I like and bands that are newsworthy. The only reason I tend to cover less mainstream music is I don't like most mainstream rock. I also know those bands are already plastered over the shitty rock mags I pass up on my way to pick up Razorcake and Punk Planet at Bulldog News. Why can't Modest Mouse and System of a Down share the same stage? Geeze, I guess they can... if you want to torture an audience with a boring indie rock band followed by a craptastic rap-nu-metal band. It seems like you'd have to pay the audience to sit through that show.


Maybe I am clueless... I just go to a lot of shows and hear a lot of great bands that NEVER get mentioned in the indie press in this town and it frustrates me. Plenty of others have complained about this phenomenon as well so there has to be some truth to it.[/QUOTE]

[dan10things]

I thought you said your own tastes shouldn't dictate what gets covered? The recent porcupine tree performance at the crocodile was completely packed. They are a prog rock band and Seattle loves them. To me, that says they deserve coverage. Are System of a Down and Mars Volta boring and slow and old? They are prog rock too. And so are Queens of the Stone Age, Foo Fighters, Mastodon, and any other band that has a mathy influence. Is there a difference between prog and math-rock? If so then I am unaware and maybe I am promoting the wrong genre. I'm talking about rock that features amazing musicianship, solos, and musically challenging structure as well as the whole powerful melodic vocals thing. What would that be called? Also, what is your opinion on Coheed & Cambria? What about old Rush?

Mars Volta and Mastodon I can tolerate and we've reviewed both of their CDs in Tablet. Old Rush? Jesus Christ, I always wanted the singer to get hit by bus so they could get someone that didn't sing like a girl. As a music editor your personal tastes don't dictate all that gets covered, but of course you have final say on everything that runs and my tastes definitely influence the coverage. Christ, I let a short interview with Lamb of God run in our current issue and that's right along the lines of the crap you listen to, I think I must have been high to let that happen.

[Mason]

Mars Volta and Mastodon I can tolerate and we've reviewed both of their CDs in Tablet. Old Rush? Jesus Christ, I always wanted the singer to get hit by bus so they could get someone that didn't sing like a girl. As a music editor your personal tastes don't dictate all that gets covered, but of course you have final say on everything that runs and my tastes definitely influence the coverage. Christ, I let a short interview with Lamb of God run in our current issue and that's right along the lines of the crap you listen to, I think I must have been high to let that happen.

Well, if there is one thing we have learned here, it has to be that Lowlife Superhero doesn't get enough coverage by the Seattle media outlets... ;)

[dan10things]

Well, if there is one thing we have learned here, it has to be that Lowlife Superhero doesn't get enough coverage by the Seattle media outlets... ;)

You song on your website it great though, when your CD comes out you should definitely send a copy and press pack to Tablet.

[progrockfan]

Mars Volta and Mastodon I can tolerate and we've reviewed both of their CDs in Tablet. Old Rush? Jesus Christ, I always wanted the singer to get hit by bus so they could get someone that didn't sing like a girl. As a music editor your personal tastes don't dictate all that gets covered, but of course you have final say on everything that runs and my tastes definitely influence the coverage. Christ, I let a short interview with Lamb of God run in our current issue and that's right along the lines of the crap you listen to, I think I must have been high to let that happen.

Well hey, we may disagree about certain bands, but if you read back I posted a list of bands from my music collection and I think you'll see that I listen to a lot of music that even YOU would consider to be non-craptastic. I think you have a little bit of the predictable Seattle-anti-mainstream thing that clouds your judgement, but in calling Modest Mouse boring You have redeemed yourself in my eyes, not that you care.

A couple of bones to pick: System of a Down are not the same as the crappy rap-nu-metal bands. There is actually depth and originality to the musicianship there. Also, a lot of people hate Geddy Lee's voice. I personally like it. But at least can't you admit that MUSICALLY, Rush are one of the best rock bands of all time? Each individual in the band is one of the top 10-20 on their instruments of all time. Maybe I just focus more on the music and you focus more on the vocals. SOAD has bullshit lyrics, so I can see why that would be a strike against them, same with Rush's annoyingly high-pitched singer, but I'd rather listen to bands with amazing music and crappy singers than the other way around. AND, I don't think either of those singers are crappy.

But SOADs lyrics are mostly bullshit, I will give you that.

[Jennifer Maerz]

I think Dan's comments here are some of the sharpest (and funniest) in this thread..there's no pussyfooting around shit with him. And there's a lot of stuff here I agree with him on.

I'm getting the feeling that progrockfan has specific issues with specific bands not getting covered. Dan and I don't really deal with specifics as much as overall missions, so arguing why one specific band gets coverage over another specific band feels a little futile. It's less important why we covered, say, Big Indie Band X over Shitty Local Band Y than it is a) how the music editors in this town aim to cover music (and to that end I think Tablet, the Stranger, and indie mag Resonance all aim to spotlight all the underground/independent /etc stuff we've explained here) and b) that if you don't like what's happening with the music coverage you should start your own publication/blog/email newsletter/whatever and get the word out yourself. Not that the Tablet or the Stranger are walled, impenetrable institutions in any way (if anything I think we're both fluid entities and we're constantly working on hopefully bettering our music coverage in ways that excite us and our readers) but there are ways to effect change in writing more than only posting on message boards about it. Look at what Dan's done....look at what Bandoppler (sp? and RIP) did....in a city full of DIY festivals, labels, and publications, it's better to put your passion and energy into making shit happen then complaining that it doesn't.

[progrockfan]

I'm getting the feeling that progrockfan has specific issues with specific bands not getting covered.

No, I just wish the writers in this town had the same tastes as me and were like "oh and X band's guitarist is amazing, he can arpeggiate as fast as yngvie one moment and express the confused soul of lifeson the next". I guess I am just hoping that heavy rock in the butt/prog/alt/metal veins come back into greater fashion. I am too busy to start my own zine. I've found a lot of cool bands I like in this town and I go to their shows, but most of them I did not find through The Stranger. I've also been to a lot of Stranger picked shows and usually been disappointed. Hopefully by complaining it will plant some seeds of interest somewhere and in a few years my tastes and the stranger's tastes will line up better. How about gig trading? I will come to more stranger picked shows and bring people if indie-heads will come to shows I pick. I just want to be a part of something that I believe in.

[Mason]

...in a city full of DIY festivals, labels, and publications, it's better to put your passion and energy into making shit happen then complaining that it doesn't.

Well said and I concur. Too many people, whether musicians or not, place the blame on their lack of success upon others. If they were to take a look deep inside I am sure they could say that they didn't do everything they could to further their passion. Whatever it is...

progrockfan, I respect your apparent passion for the music. You said you are not in a band. Maybe you should consider doing something for those bands you love that you feel are overlooked? Speaking as a musician I can tell you any help is very much appreciated and in many cases you may discover that you really can make a huge difference.

And Dan10things, thanks for the kind words. You are, of course, on the list.

[m.c.]

And as much as you want to hype prog rock I think it fucking blows. It's boring, it's old, it's slow, it doesn't usually have enough balls to it for me to rock out. I'd rather have my eyes stabbed by forks than listen to most prog rock bands. Think prog rock bands deserve press and are exciting? Good for you, start a prog rock mag.


Here are some local Prog bands that are'nt old, slow, or boring.. Unless you consider intricate songwriting and superior musicianship boring.....
Band Sites
Waking Hour (http://www.wakinghour.com)
Lyranthe (http://www.lyranthe.com)
Shadow Demon (http://www.shadowdemon.us)
Subjekt 2 Change (http://www.subjekt2Change.com)
You can also find Waking Hour (http://www.myspace.com/wakinghour), Shadow Demon (http://www.myspace.com/shadowdemon), and S2C (http://www.myspace.com/subjekt2change) on Myspace.

[progrockfan]

progrockfan, I respect your apparent passion for the music. You said you are not in a band. Maybe you should consider doing something for those bands you love that you feel are overlooked? Speaking as a musician I can tell you any help is very much appreciated and in many cases you may discover that you really can make a huge difference.

Why do you think I am here posting all this??? It's my opinion that certain bands and styles of music are unfairly ignored in this town, and my main beef is that "mainstream heavy rock" is the main target of intentional ignorance. There's a huge market for this style of music in Seattle. Why do you think shows are so sparsely attended these days (yes even indie shows) when compared to the days before grunge?

My personal preference is for bands that make hard rock capable of mainstream (mass) appeal, but that manage to sneak in some progressive / mathy originality and musicianship into their music. I am just highly impressed by people who have skills on an instrument. I miss solos and musical showing off dammit!

[spacerawk]

Why do you think I am here posting all this??? It's my opinion that certain bands and styles of music are unfairly ignored in this town, and my main beef is that "mainstream heavy rock" is the main target of intentional ignorance.

It really all goes back to the anti-mainstream mentality that you speak of in Seattle. The reason that "mainstream heavy rock" has become the target of intentional ignorance is because it has dominated the heavy/hard/alternative rock stations for the last 7 or 8 years. The majority of that music has been shit, and so much of it has been shoved down the throats of the anti-mainstream that they really just can't bear to give any of it a chance anymore. It's not like the 80's/early 90's alternative explosion when so many worthy bands were receiving commercial airplay and success because of their songwriting and musicianship. Most of the commercial bands, heavy rock in particular, over the last 10 years were pieced together by record execs and tossed aside as soon as they weren't the next Nirvana. The only place I've consistently been able to find truly good music over the last 10 years had been through indie rock and its countless sub-genres, and often times it's been thanks to KCMU/KEXP and The Stranger. I'm not saying they've been right every time, but more often than not they have been.

[progrockfan]

It really all goes back to the anti-mainstream mentality that you speak of in Seattle. The reason that "mainstream heavy rock" has become the target of intentional ignorance is because it has dominated the heavy/hard/alternative rock stations for the last 7 or 8 years. The majority of that music has been shit, and so much of it has been shoved down the throats of the anti-mainstream that they really just can't bear to give any of it a chance anymore. It's not like the 80's/early 90's alternative explosion when so many worthy bands were receiving commercial airplay and success because of their songwriting and musicianship. Most of the commercial bands, heavy rock in particular, over the last 10 years were pieced together by record execs and tossed aside as soon as they weren't the next Nirvana. The only place I've consistently been able to find truly good music over the last 10 years had been through indie rock and its countless sub-genres, and often times it's been thanks to KCMU/KEXP and The Stranger. I'm not saying they've been right every time, but more often than not they have been.

I agree with you that much of the bad reputation for this genre is earned, but then I think part of the distaste for is is just pure jealousy. The same jealousy that inspired Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold to kill the more popular kids at Columbine. Or maybe jealousy is the wrong word. Isolationism, rebellion, disdain for authority, non-conformity, etc... whatever inspires it. It's half because most mainstream rock sucks and half because many are prejudiced against it.

In terms of percentages, I doubt that the percentage of amazing indie bands is much higher than that for mainstream heavy rock bands. But, I do agree with you that just simple, generic heavy rock is old and boring and that to be worthy of consideration a band has to distinguish itself in some way, such as "the ruby doe" does by integrating math-rock elements (what I would refer to as prog).

I am just asking the entrenched music forces, and all the indie-heads in Seattle, to open up your minds to include mainstream sounding heavy rock bands, because there are a small few in this town who really are doing something artistically interesting, and I think the genre has been ignored for long enough. Let's start a dialogue... For example: How to include a guitar solo in your song without it sounding cliche and lame?

So, just eliminate the knee-jerk anti-mainstream reaction for a second. and check out some of the bands I have listed in this thread, and that RawkBabe listed MySpace links to in another thread. Maybe you will like some of it. Maybe your indie band will want to play a show with someone else's progressive alternative band.

[Brodeo]

I love that your argument is that indie bands should embrace mainstream bands. It seems so twisted.

That's like saying Walmart should do more to help out ma and pop retailers.

[Mason]

I love that your argument is that indie bands should embrace mainstream bands. It seems so twisted.

That's like saying Walmart should do more to help out ma and pop retailers.

I think you have it backwards. It is like saying ma and pa should do more to help out Walmart. But yeah, I agree.

[Brodeo]

I think you have it backwards. It is like saying ma and pa should do more to help out Walmart. But yeah, I agree.

Exactly, I should stop smoking coke so early in the morning.

[progrockfan]

No, because I am not advocating embracing hugely successful yet crappy bands.

I am advocating embracing local, independent, starving bands whose music style sounds closer to mainstream than indie, but who are way way better than the hugely successful yet crappy bands.

In essence it would be like saying that just because you run a mom & pop restauraunt in the same town as a McDs doesn't mean you can't serve and enjoy french fries and still maintain your integrity.

[Mason]

In essence it would be like saying that just because you run a mom & pop restauraunt in the same town as a McDs doesn't mean you can't serve and enjoy french fries and still maintain your integrity.

Yeah, but what's the point if you are making french fries that are EXACTLY like McDs?

[Jennifer Maerz]

I agree with you that much of the bad reputation for this genre is earned, but then I think part of the distaste for is is just pure jealousy. The same jealousy that inspired Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold to kill the more popular kids at Columbine.

I think you must've known when you wrote this statement that it's a huge exaggeration. People trashing mainstream rock doesn't come close to kids shooting up their schoolmates.

But I do think jealousy exists in the music world--and it's a pretty strong force. Watching the documentary <i>Dig!</i> last year about the rivalry between two bands (the Dandy Warhols and the Brian Jonestown Massacre) who, for the most part, were far from being the next big thing anyway, bitching about what the other one has and what they think has been stolen from them was really entertaining, disgusting, and depressing all at once.

There seems to be a prevalent attitude about music where if one band/genre/whatever gets popular, it's at the expense of another. So, say, if the Dandy Warhols get a big flashy video it's because the BJM didn't. Or that mainstream hard rock isn't popular because indie rockers aren't going to their shows.

There are so many outlets for music that it's hard for me to believe that's really the case as a general rule. Metal band X doesn't get coverage in the paper not because indie band Y did but because the writers and editors didn't like the music. There can be some exceptions, like if an editor hears one Franz Ferdinand band that sounds pretty fresh, by the 20th version of that same sound they're probably not as excited about that style of music from a new unknown.

But in general the idea that certain bands take away from others is pretty fascinating. I think it's because the music industry is really competitive--for attention, for money, for record deals, for kids to crowd your shows--so it's an easy, although not always realistic, assumption that if people aren't clamoring for one style of music it's because they're all hot and bothered over another.

People can like all kinds of bands at once or they can stick to a strict diet of one sound....In my ideal world radio, media, and clubs would all work to mix up the bands they help expose. But that doesn't always work. I've seen mellow acts paired with super crazed ones and the transition was jarring--not to mention a real bummer.

I also think this jealousy/clawing for scraps that arises comes from people stuck with an old paradigm of what constitutes success. If success is mainstream commercial radio, the <i>Rolling Stone</i>s of the world, selling out Key Arena, then yeah, those larger venues/mediums can tend to shift with the popularity wind. But there are other levels of popularity out there too...instead of saying <i>Blender</i> is the last word on music, if you love underground metal, how about <I>Decibel</I> magazine, or if electronica's your thing, how about <i>XLR8R</I>. Those are just two example--and this post is already probably way too long--but again, just because something is huge and powerful doesn't mean it's the last word.

[progrockfan]

Yeah, but what's the point if you are making french fries that are EXACTLY like McDs?

There is none, which is why I said "I do agree with you that just simple, generic heavy rock is old and boring and that to be worthy of consideration a band has to distinguish itself in some way, such as "the ruby doe" does by integrating math-rock elements (what I would refer to as prog)."

And even tried to open up a dialogue to get to the heart of the issue by asking: "How to include a guitar solo in your song without it sounding cliche and lame?"

Maybe Peepshow isn't really different enough to be worthy of coverage, but at least some of those bands I listed are. In essence I'm saying "don't throw the baby out with the bath water". There is still a place for RAWK, musicianship, solos, powerful lead vocals, great production, catchyness, aggression, pick scratches, whammy bars, power chords and palm mutes etc... in music. Maybe more of a place than the scene has allowed due to predjudice and closed minded stereotyping, which, I admitted, was mostly deserved and brought upon the heavy/mainstream rock scene by itself.

Innovative local artists in this genre should not be punished for what Creed did.

[progrockfan]

People trashing mainstream rock doesn't come close to kids shooting up their schoolmates.

Only in the matter of degree or extent. On some level they are not qualitatively different. In the same sense that accidentally putting the wrong key in the lock is not qualitatively different on some level from an airline pilot accidentally forgetting to press a button which results in the firey death of hundreds of people.

[Mason]

Innovative local artists in this genre should not be punished for what Creed did.

It comes down to this statement I have quoted above. IMO innovative local artists ARE recognized by the Media in this town. Period.

[progrockfan]

It comes down to this statement I have quoted above. IMO innovative local artists ARE recognized by the Media in this town. Period.

Ok well then we disagree. In my opinion, there are innovative bands that get shelved mostly because they stylistically differ from the tastes of those "in control" rather than what the fans would like if only they knew it existed. I'm saying there are a ton of hard rock fans in Seattle who just don't read the stranger or attend shows but who would if the information was there and they didn't feel they'd be labeled as unhip. It's like... they know they aren't wanted so they have given up and gone into hiding. Or, they don't even know they would love a certain band because they've been told it's unfashionable by intolerant scenesters. Have you not noticed that to declare yourself a Rush fan is to commit social suicide in this town? If Seattle wants to be boring music town then let it. I personally would like to help rescue Seattle from this fate.

[Fuzed]

Hey all, been trying to stay out of this discussion. But have to jump in. If you rely on local alternative press or radio to make your band succesful, you are (a) missing the point of what it is to make music (b) focused on way to small of a market and (b) far too concerned with local media. I would be far more worried what the press in London, Paris, NY, and Tokyo think than in Seattle. You live here. If you want people to know about your band you can post about it over and over and over and over again on these message boards (seems like you have that one down), or promote the hell out of it with posters, handbills, ads, etc. Bands like Maktub that the Stranger rarely writes about and definitely doesn't think is hip, are huge here and release their music worldwide. If the Stranger doesn't like you, who cares. Get over it. Don't count on media to validate your art. Writers are just people. They like some things and don't like others. If you don't like the Block Party booking, start your own festival. I did it, it's not impossible. I absolutely hate bands like Creed, love Modest Mouse, and love a ton of local bands. There are a bunch of heavier rock bands that are playing the Block Party this year and have in the past - Three Inches of Bood, Visqueen, Blood Brothers, THE MELVINS, Mudhoney, The Catheters, The Spits, Ruby Doe, etc, etc. And we don't book every genre - no jazz, no blues, no jam bands, no folk. Maybe we will someday, there is a lot of great local music in all of those genres. This year we added a great lineup of electronic music, a genre totally overlooked by local radio and one that barely gets the local press it deserves. Seattle is a great music city. The press coverage and radio support of local music is better than any other city in the US. The Stranger is INCREDIBLY supportive of local music, as is the Weekly, Seattle Times, Seattle P-I, KEXP and the End. Festivals like the Block Party, Bumbershoot, etc, all support local music. Quit your bitching, get out and make it happen for yourself. If you decide to start a band that sounds like the major label crap on the radio, then don't expect alternative media to support it. All media has to be selevtive and thank god for that. No one wants to read about a band just because they are local. We want to read about them because they are local and good. Worry about FANS not media. If your band has fans you'll get the attention you need. And don't suggest that you can't get fans without media. That's just not true. Tons of bands that get lots of media have no following and tons of bands that get no media have lots. If you like Creed, you'll probably never like what is booked at the Block Party and I would suggest you go to a Creed show not a Built to Spill show.

[Mason]

AMEN!!! Preach on brother!

[spacerawk]

The Capitol Hill Arts Center (http://www.capitolhillarts.com/) is a great place to hold festivals. The Seesaw festival this past winter and the Thank You But No festival last summer are two that we have been a part of and helped organize. It's a huge room, and you have the ability to have an all ages bar w/id crowd. So, just as Fuzed stated, it's not impossible. In fact, both of those shows were a huge success for their respective causes.

[Jennifer Maerz]

In my opinion, there are innovative bands that get shelved mostly because they stylistically differ from the tastes of those "in control" rather than what the fans would like if only they knew it existed. ...It's like... they know they aren't wanted so they have given up and gone into hiding. Or, they don't even know they would love a certain band because they've been told it's unfashionable by intolerant scenesters.

Dude, who are these warlords of Seattle music? There's no cabal of music lovers plotting what to leave in and what to take out of some popularity yearbook. Do you really think there are people going around dictating what's cool and uncool to like as if it were the ten commandments? Like there's a list at all the Pine St. bars and if you've got Rush on your iPod you get denied entry faster than an underage kid with a fake ID? People can listen to whatever the fuck they want. No one can tell you what you can and cannot like and if you're cowering at home about a band you love instead of going to their show because you're afraid of what's not cool you're a fucking pussy and that's none of our problems.

I cannot stand the music of Citizen Cope, for example. His music makes my skin crawl. And yet he gets the shit played out his stuff on KEXP, sells out the Showbox, comes back to Seattle again and again. I can write a scathing blurb about how much his murky Starbucks pop sucks ass, but people who love him and want to see him play aren't going to stop going to the show because I disagre with them.

I hate to blow the fantasy but there's no list of cool and uncool controlling the music buying public. Sure, bands that people think are cool (i.e. like, are passionate about, whatever) will draw more crowds based on word of mouth and the like then those who don't have as passionate fans, but there's no one stopping people from hearing bands they don't like that have no buzz at all.

[progrockfan]

OK well hey, this thread has accomplished my mission: To find out about more good heavy rock bands in Seattle through the stranger. Of course it only came about through forcing music writers to defend themselves, but that's ok. I'd just like to register my vote for more heavy rock coverage in the stranger, and get a writer who likes some mainstream rock/metal for chrissakes. Just for diversity's sake! A lot of people like it and there are local bands making it and they are stuck between a rock (the stranger) and a hard place (clear channel).

Oh, and the market is not ideal. Good bands often get overlooked and crap bands often get promoted due to things that have nothing to do with quality. Betamax anyone? I think Jennifer flirted with agreeing with me when she said that KEXP needs a metal/heavy rock show. Jennifer: Why don't they have one? Ponder that for a while people.

I love Seattle & the music scene rocks!!!!

[sheikyerbouti]

And as much as you want to hype prog rock I think it fucking blows. It's boring, it's old, it's slow, it doesn't usually have enough balls to it for me to rock out.

Ok, I told myself I was just gonna surf this forum, but the above won't allow me to do so. Idiotic statements such as this (dismissing an entire 35+ year old sub-genre of rock?) are perfectly indicative of why you will probably never be the music editor for an important* rock-related publication. You simply ain't got the brains to do it.

(*getting recognition from the Utne reader does not make you important)

What's truly BORING is getting so dang giddy and excited about rehashed "punk" rock rip-offs, as you still do. Talk about OLD! You're a narrow-minded curmudgeon! If you weren't, you'd realize that it often takes far BIGGER BALLS to make original/daring prog-rock than is required to pump out the PLAGIARIZED three-chord "punk" rock you love so much, like some sort of punk version of a JAZZ SNOB GEEK. I'm not sayin' that you ought to LIKE prog-rock, generally speaking. But at least respect it, as any intelligent and well-listened "music editor" would.

Regardless, I still find you quite likeable, in spite of these shortcomings. Kinda like a big dumb dog, though (with a spiked collar, of course). Heck, we will always love you. Regardless. Us thirty-somethings see too much of ourselves in your proud punk-nerd persona to not wanna have a beer with you, or butt heads with you on this crazy "forum".

(I heart Tablet)

[dan10things]

Of course it only came about through forcing music writers to defend themselves, but that's ok.

Dude, you are dellusional, you didn't force anything... well, except for me having to point out how much I hate prog rock, System of a Down and Rush. You asked questions and spouted off, Jennifer, me and David responded. We're all quite happy to discuss the local music scene, we've done it for 15 plus years. Although this whole idea of Warlords of Seattle's Music Scene sounds fucking cool, the first order of business would be to send my henchmen out to cause a little chaos at prog rock shows.

[sheikyerbouti]

Dude, you are dellusional, you didn't force anything... well, except for me having to point out how much I hate prog rock, System of a Down and Rush.

If a 30-something white guy "hates" Rush, he's either:

a) an art-fag
b) a punk-nerd
c) an "indie" boy
d) gay
e) both a & d
f) both b & d
g) both c & d

[Mason]

If a 30-something guy "hates" Rush, he's either:

a) an art-fag
b) a punk-nerd
c) gay
d) both a & c
e) both b & c

You are more of a "narrow-minded curmudgeon" than you accuse Dan10things of being.

[dan10things]

Ok, I told myself I was just gonna surf this forum, but the above won't allow me to do so. Idiotic statements such as this (dismissing an entire 35+ year old sub-genre of rock?) are perfectly indicative of why you will probably never be the music editor for an important* rock-related publication. You simply ain't got the brains to do it.

Important, as well as how exciting prog rock is, is all in the eye of the beholder. I think I would revise my statement to say modern prog rock/prog rock today, I liked some prog rock bands from the '70s and '80s and I've always been a fan of Helios Creed. But give me a break... don't you find any current sub-genres of music boring? Or annoying? Should you bite your tounge and just not talk about it when someone says how wonderful that type of music is and how you should be writing about it? That's so not who I am. Sure, stating your honest opinion and not beating around the bush can definitely hold you back in life, but that's not how I live my life. I value honesty and integrity over playing politics... and I have a feeling that people actually do value honest opinions more than you think.

[sheikyerbouti]

You are more of a "narrow-minded curmudgeon" than you accuse Dan10things of being.

perhaps, but at least i'm RIGHT

(LOL - humour, anyone?)

[sheikyerbouti]

I have a feeling that people actually do value honest opinions more than you think.

Yeah, that's why yap-trap talk radio is so popular.

Most of all, people value QUALITY opinions.

[Oof]

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/200/1549/320/retarded-1.1.jpg

[progrockfan]

No, talk radio is more popular because radio doesn't play the music people want to hear: new, independent, local progressive hard rock!

http://www.rush.com/php/media/gallery/70s/pics/70pic9.jpg

[cherrycanoe]

wow, jennifer wasn't kidding. this thread is alive with the sound of...something. i'm throwing my 2 cents in:

1. the block party has grown into a vital, exciting, and reasonably priced event. i certainly remember the early days and they weren't what nostalgia may paint them as. i worked at the seattle weekly the year they were the media sponsor and it wasn't pretty. shitty bands, low attendance, and a sad mishmash of booths.

if you've spent any time at all living in another city, or have visited cities comparable to seattle's size, you surely must recognize that the arts/music festivals here are dynamic and extraordinary. bitch and moan all you like but the bottom line is this: seattle is still a city in which music is a valued art form and commodity. and yes, i said commodity. see #2.

2. something that has been overlooked or ignored in many of these pissing matches: the stranger, kexp, the block party, and every single bar and club in town that your band wants to play at are BUSINESSSES. they are not charitable institutions. they must sell advertising space to gain revenue. clubs cannot survive on the 13 people that pay to see your band on a thursday night. the block party, like any festival, cannot operate without revenue.

a particularly offensive rant: someone is always bitching about the stranger not devoting enough space to music. ok tough guy, why don't you buy a couple of full page ads every week so they can increase their page count? it's an easy equation: more ad dollars=more content pages. that's the way it works. again, the stranger is a BUSINESS. they must pay their writers, their administrative staff, their rent, and their goddamn bar tabs.

3. dan10 things speaks the truth. listen to him.

4. the "music mafia" does not exist. this sorry excuse (you gotta know/blow/kowtow to someone to get anywhere) is bullshit and is generally employed by people in bands that truly do suck, or by folks that are looking for a pathetic excuse for not doing anything other than sitting around complaining.

you want a show? start doing the work. i notice a lot of modest mouse bashing in this thread. like 'em or not, the bottom line is this: they have worked their asses off for over TEN YEARS to get to the point they are at now. they've toured relentlessly, recorded continuously, and have worked very hard to get a glimmer of success. deal with it.

see you at the block party!

[segal]

Idiotic statements such as this (dismissing an entire 35+ year old sub-genre of rock?) are perfectly indicative of why you will probably never be the music editor for an important* rock-related publication. You simply ain't got the brains to do it.

What's truly BORING is getting so dang giddy and excited about rehashed "punk" rock rip-offs, as you still do. Talk about OLD! You're a narrow-minded curmudgeon! If you weren't, you'd realize that it often takes far BIGGER BALLS to make original/daring prog-rock than is required to pump out the PLAGIARIZED three-chord "punk" rock you love so much, like some sort of punk version of a JAZZ SNOB GEEK. I'm not sayin' that you ought to LIKE prog-rock, generally speaking. But at least respect it, as any intelligent and well-listened "music editor" would.
I have to agree with the gist of this post. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Be suspicious of wholesale dismissals of entire genres--especially when it comes from someone championing music that's not exactly doing anything that danged extraordinary. There's some amazing prog, both old and new (mostly old, but most genres decline as they age, duh), just as there's some amazing punk (or so some experts keep telling me). Most of the output of both genres is shite, but so it goes with every style. xoxo

[FAMILIAR CHILL]

No, talk radio is more popular because radio doesn't play the music people want to hear: new, independent, local progressive hard rock!




And how many "PROG" bands are there in the Seattle area?







http://www.lyranthe.com/media/Lyrink.jpg (http://www.lyranthe.com)

[dan10things]

If a 30-something white guy "hates" Rush, he's either:

a) an art-fag
b) a punk-nerd
c) an "indie" boy
d) gay
e) both a & d
f) both b & d
g) both c & d

Ha ha ha, you can't be serious? Damn, Rush seems to have quite a revised place in history in your eyes. I'm thinking 9th grade, 1982-1983... girls fucking laughed at Rush. Most of the metal guys were into heavier bands and thought Rush were "too gay, that's not real metal!" The skaters, punks, goths, etc. didn't really give them the time of day, nor did the jocks or popular crowd. But this small group of kinda nerdy metal guys with half-assed moustaches, glasses and the makings of mullets and who played D&D would wear Rush and Yes t-shirts to school. I bought my weed from one of these dudes, nice guy, but he was even nerdier than me. He did kick some major ass on Dragon's Lair at the 7-11 though, I swear that's where all his money went from selling pot.

[sheikyerbouti]

Ha ha ha, you can't be serious? Damn, Rush seems to have quite a revised place in history in your eyes

History? Who's talking history? But while we're on the topic, you should read up and listen up on prog rock history and current happenings - instead of wasting time telling boring stories on this forum - so that maybe next time the subject comes along you might be able to provide an informed opinion, instead of talkin out your ass like the overgrown, thick-headed teenager that you are.

[Mason]

Ok, I told myself I was just gonna surf this forum

Maybe you should have listened. For our sake...

[FAMILIAR CHILL]

History? Who's talking history? But while we're on the topic, you should read up and listen up on prog rock history and current happenings -



Especially the CURRENT Prog..... Nothing like the old school Prog bands of the 70's-80's

And RUSH will go down in history as some of THE best musicians ever to play.
Geddy Lee is in the top 5 best bassist of all time....even though I can not stand to hear him sing.

Dont slam the entire genre because of the superior musicianship.









http://www.lyranthe.com/media/Lyrink.jpg (http://www.lyranthe.com)

[poochiekafelnikov]

Ha ha ha, you can't be serious? Damn, Rush seems to have quite a revised place in history in your eyes. I'm thinking 9th grade, 1982-1983... girls fucking laughed at Rush. Most of the metal guys were into heavier bands and thought Rush were "too gay, that's not real metal!" The skaters, punks, goths, etc. didn't really give them the time of day, nor did the jocks or popular crowd. But this small group of kinda nerdy metal guys with half-assed moustaches, glasses and the makings of mullets and who played D&D would wear Rush and Yes t-shirts to school. I bought my weed from one of these dudes, nice guy, but he was even nerdier than me. He did kick some major ass on Dragon's Lair at the 7-11 though, I swear that's where all his money went from selling pot.

These don't strike me as authentic experiences...it is my belief that you've read these characterizations from a myriad of sources and have created some form of archetypal pastiche...I know that I've read them many times before. People, no matter how young, are not this delineated. Many of Lifeson's solos transcend any form of genre commitment or exclusion. Indirectly related, people who claim to be music lovers and who bash classic rock (prog is a scribe invention), punk, or whatever...christ, I don't know what to say about them. Talent, ability, creativity, and integrity can be recognized and honored no matter what the form. I've drunk my last red bull and my head is gimmehat free.

[chops]

...is this thread still going on?

from the block party whining, to the same old 'seattle music media coverage doesn't write about what i already know about/my band/my scene', to creed, to bizzaro prog rock rants, to a difference in opinion over hesher stereotypes...lordy lordy look who's forty.

by all means, keep it up. it's as entertaining as it is aggravating [the stranger doesn't cover the ruby doe? visqueen?? WHAaa???]

but...puhleeze start a new thread or something. suggestions:

1] my band needs press coverage from the stranger to become a commercial success. make it so. (we are available for interview in my mom's basement on sunday afternoons.)

2] bands i like that should be big even though no one else likes them.

2] prog rock. define.

3] prog rock. system of a down the next rush? discuss.

4] does dan create stereotypes and character amalgams to further his points? parse.

etc...

time to splinter the conversation. mostly cuz it's getting hard to follow. and i wasn't born to follow.

you people slice like a fucking hammer.

[poochiekafelnikov]

[QUOTE=chops and i wasn't born to follow.[/QUOTE]

...nor to lead...what are you to do?

[progrockfan]

I still think that the stranger, kexp, the tablet, etc... represent a music taste that is skewed against the mainstream, against heavy and/or progressive rock and not necessarily aligned with the tastes of the majority of Seattleites, and that this ends up preventing good local bands from connecting with an audience and prevents the audience for this music from finding out about shows and bands they might like.

Ideally this would be ok, to have an "alternative" paper covering everything the mainstream leaves out. Unfortunately, mainstream press and radio won't cover local, independent bands either.

Ultimately this trend relegates indie bands into obscurity, by forcing them to choose genres that generally lack the ability to cross over into the mainstream.

I actually hate Creed. But, let's say there's 10,000 huge Creed fans living in Seattle. They hate indie rock. They normally listen to KISW, occasionally KNDD, and rarely check out KEXP to see if there's anything new/indie/local they might like.

Local band X sounds a lot like Creed, but no one will give them press or radio airplay. The major mainstream media only promote the bands that Clear Channel pays them to, and that are already signed to a major label. Alternative media won't cover them because they are anti-mainstream and think Creed and any band that sounds like Creed sucks and should just die. So, they are fucked. They could have an audience of 10,000 people in Seattle that love them and come to their shows, but they have no way to connect to this audience.

Yes, they can promote themselves... They can start a website, publish their MP3s, sell them on CDBaby, put up posters and flyers saying "if you like creed you'll love us", tell all their friends, start their own zine, play a ton of shows, etc... Most of this stuff takes $$ and time that would be better spent practicing and writing songs.

The fact is, MOST people are fucking lazy and won't take an interest in a new local band no matter how good they sound unless it is spoon fed to them through the media, preferably television, but also radio and local music zines. This is the ultimate target of my rant, the apathy of the average music listener. Perhaps indie fans are less apathetic and if that's the case then indie bands are lucky as hell to have that.

I just personally wish that someone at the stranger or kexp had an interest in covering local bands that were heavier and/or more mainstream sounding. I as a music fan would pay attention to these columns/radio shows and attend the local performances they suggested. Hell, you could even make it into a diss... call it the "corporate crap buttrock wannabe corner" or "cheeseball dork ass trailer trash metal head show" or "guitar wankers" or something. I think it would help to revitalize the scene, expose what in my opinion are some decent but underreported bands, and make concert going more fun. It would definitely give me even more reasons to love this amazing city.

In part this whole issue goes along with the often reported cliqueishness of the seattle social scene. The "seattle freeze" if you will.

[Jennifer Maerz]

...is this thread still going on?

from the block party whining, to the same old 'seattle music media coverage doesn't write about what i already know about/my band/my scene', to creed, to bizzaro prog rock rants, to a difference in opinion over hesher stereotypes...lordy lordy look who's forty.

by all means, keep it up. it's as entertaining as it is aggravating [the stranger doesn't cover the ruby doe? visqueen?? WHAaa???]

but...puhleeze start a new thread or something. suggestions:

1] my band needs press coverage from the stranger to become a commercial success. make it so. (we are available for interview in my mom's basement on sunday afternoons.)


2] bands i like that should be big even though no one else likes them.

2] prog rock. define.

3] prog rock. system of a down the next rush? discuss.

4] does dan create stereotypes and character amalgams to further his points? parse.

etc...

time to splinter the conversation. mostly cuz it's getting hard to follow. and i wasn't born to follow.

you people slice like a fucking hammer.

I don't think I can top this ace response. I won't even try.

[Mason]

I don't think I can top this ace response. I won't even try.

Ditto.

Mason - who is still looking forward to the Block Party...

[Brodeo]

Does it bother anyone else that this dude keeps bringing up Creed? And the other dude keeps bringing up System of A Down and Rush?

Fuck me, it sounds like we're at a convention for people into the Society for Creative use of Anacronyms and not an Alternative Newspaper's message board.

Just sayin'...

[progrockfan]

Why all the pretentious ridicule bullshit? I'm going out on a limb to stand up for my tastes in music and I know these styles are unpopular amongst all the artsy fucks and I really don't care. I am in the target demographic for the stranger and kexp and I'm sending them a message from the market. Hello? Does anyone get my point? Cover some other genres including the ones I mentioned and you will have more readers, listeners, profit, etc... Maybe you just think I am a clueless kooky moron with no music taste or something, but you would be wrong to think that. I actually own almost a thousand albums, am pretty up to date on my music history and do see plenty of value in a ton of esoteric and indie bands and enjoy a wide variety of genres, and in my informed opinion, the pendulum in seattle rock has swung too far towards the esoteric and anti-mainstream. Most indie these days is boring as fuck and some more metal and hard rock up their asses would help to wake this town up a bit. Come on let's start a new trend or change the old one. Most younger kids these days in highschool and middle school listen to classic rock and hip hop. Rock is the last bastion of musical ability that will save the world from complete artistic oblivion. All that's old is new again.

I'm sympathetic to all of the complaints that have been issued about mainstream rock... Keep them coming! Be more specific! Offer some constructive criticism and maybe this will eliminate the sucky bands and help the ones with potential to fully realize their artistic vision, while also convincing the indie heads that RAWK is back with a vengence and totally relevant. You can help make it happen. Seattle is the place of the next hard rock revolution. The rest of the world is waiting, and listening.

[Mason]

Of all of the people I know, I only know a handfull of people who like they style of music you are speaking of. Of those people not ONE reads the Stranger, Tablet, or listens to KEXP. I think you are completely dillusional, misinformed and lacking any indepth knowledge of the inner workings of being a in a band and what "success" is: leading to misguided assumptions on what kind of impact any of these media outlets have on a band being "successfull".

How about we just let the thread be about the Capitol Hill Block Party like it is intended to be.

[Brodeo]

Why don't we just stop beating around the bush? Please, tell us the name of your band so this thread can die. Or is it your girlfriend/boyfriend's band? At anyrate, what (other than being a huge Creed fan) is your stake in all this?

[progrockfan]

Prog Rock's Not Just For Boys Anymore - 6/06/05 (http://www.sfist.com/archives/2005/06/06/prog_rocks_not_just_for_boys_anymore.php)

From a random message board at http://www.ephilosopher.com/phpBB_14-action-viewtopic-topic-646-start-45.html (nothing to do with me):

I live by Seattle one of the few places good music should be coming from, but most of the concerts I've been to lately sucked ass. Emo is a trend that's here to stay at least it is in Seattle

What direction do you think (or wish) music will head next. I like hearing different sounds merged but I'm tired of hearing rock-rap or pop rock-ska. I would love to hear more ska-punk or reggae-punk it's already been done but it's good.


reply: High pitched vocals (ala The Mars Volta... etc)
More guitar solos... SHOW SOME TALENT!!! for gods sake I'm so tired of talentless Pearl Jam rip offs.... 3 chord guitar..... ugh... It CAN be pulled off... but no one seems to be able to do it..... Green Day's latest effort comes close.... it was half decent.....

Let's go back to Prog Rock!

See! I am not the only one who feels this way!!!!

[progrockfan]

Why don't we just stop beating around the bush? Please, tell us the name of your band so this thread can die. Or is it your girlfriend/boyfriend's band? At anyrate, what (other than being a huge Creed fan) is your stake in all this?


I moved to Seattle to be a part of the music scene and go to shows and be a promoter and help bands that took grunge to the next evolutionary step to succeed. I'm a shadow artist. I have some recording experience but have never been in a band. I just love these genres of music. My personal stake is: I don't want to have to move to find a music scene that likes the same kinds of music I do. I have too much invested in Seattle to just throw in the towel. I want to hang out with people who like Rush and System of a Down and Primus and Mastodon and Helmet and King Crimson and Van Halen and Jane's Addiction and who are total rawk geeks like me and I want to go to shows to see local independent innovative prog, metal, hard and classic type rock bands from around the country that come here to Seattle because they know this is where the true music fans live and that people still want to hear heavy music with guitar and drum solos and lasers and shit.

Oh and I really don't like Creed. I don't own any of their albums. But shit... how about... Blink 182 or old Metallica, or Joe Satriani or Incubus or Green Day. I'm sure most sophisiticated artsy fucks hate them. Well, they have awesome musicians so hey, I like them.

Oh and Steve Vai at the Showbox was totally packed.

[Brodeo]

Fair enough, I won't judge you on that. But please, leave Creed out of things ok? They've done enough damage as is.

So you like Prog Metal. Find some local bands that might fit in to that or overlap in some way. But don't expect people to take you seriously when you mention Creed and Rush as musical sign posts.

Here's a tip: Go see Federation X, Big Business and Drunk Horse at the Comet tomorrow.

[progrockfan]

Fair enough, I won't judge you on that. But please, leave Creed out of things ok? They've done enough damage as is.

So you like Prog Metal. Find some local bands that might fit in to that or overlap in some way. But don't expect people to take you seriously when you mention Creed and Rush as musical sign posts.

Here's a tip: Go see Federation X, Big Business and Drunk Horse at the Comet tomorrow.


OK, fuck CREED, they SUCK... But Rush? One of the best bands of all time! I can't be the only one who feels this way, considering that they sell out stadiums all over the world. Their music is also decidedly non-generic/boring/mainstream/corporate. They are extremely artistically valid and relevant and worthy of sign post status being, next to led zepplin, the cure, metallica and a few others, the most influential and important band of the 70s/80s.

Calling all Rush fans: Time to come out of the shadows!!!! Do not hide your faces in shame, be proud of your appreciation for amazing musicianship, philosophic and intellectually interesting lyrics and testicle clenching vocals!!!!

[Oof]

Calling all Rush fans: Time to come out of the shadows!!!! Do not hide your faces in shame, be proud of your appreciation for amazing musicianship, philosophic and intellectually interesting lyrics and testicle clenching vocals!!!!

Nothing beats 2112 or Fly By Night. Well, when it comes to what I consider 'classic rock'.

[Fuzed]

Just announced! RUSH & CREED at The Capitol Hill Block Party 2005!

[FAMILIAR CHILL]

Green Day. I'm sure most sophisiticated artsy fucks hate them. Well, they have awesome musicians so hey, I like them.

I am NOT a sophisticated artsy fuck....but....

WOW!!!!

That was the funniest thing I have read all day!!

Thank you for bringing more humor to this discussion.


Green Day ..... awesome musicians....


You are killin me!!





http://www.lyranthe.com/media/Lyrink.jpg (http://www.lyranthe.com)

[progrockfan]

Green Day ..... awesome musicians....

You are killin me!!


Fucking A you people like to argue. FINE, Green Day are not virtuosos. The drummer is damn good and they are hard hitting and catchy though. Melody is always nice. They could use better guitarists and more original/progressive music.

[segal]

Girth should be playing this thing. They're one of the best damned math-rock (a branch of prog, but open-minded punks dig it, too) bands in the country.
If I overlooked their name on the bill, sorry.

[Mason]

Just announced! RUSH & CREED at The Capitol Hill Block Party 2005!

Better yet: save The Stranger some cash and progrockfan, Brodeo, Dan10things and I will perform CREED and RUSH covers in our underwear with anti-seattle-media slogans scrawled across our chests with Magic Markers. (Jennifer, feel free to join us. All prog bands could use a keyboard.)

:rollseyes:

[FAMILIAR CHILL]

Fucking A you people like to argue. FINE, Green Day are not virtuosos. The drummer is damn good and they are hard hitting and catchy though. Melody is always nice. They could use better guitarists and more original/progressive music.



My point was that you going on and on about PROG, but at the same time you mention Green Day as being AWESOME musicians. I fail to see that in Green Day. Now, I love my Prog, I am in an original Prog band, but I save the Green Day for the half assed cover band. My point...simplistic, 3 1/2 minute 3 chord songs do not make an AWESOME musician. Hard hitting and catchy...fine, but my 12 year old sister can play those songs...but she is a loooong way from being awesome.

Now, if Rush is your only leg to stand on as far as good PROG music, I can see why you are getting kicked around. There is a lot of Prog outside of Rush and Yes. Both bands I can not listen to for more than a song or two.

So, what other PROG bands are you listening to?
What LOCAL PROG bands are you trying to bring attention to?







http://www.lyranthe.com/media/Lyrink.jpg (http://www.lyranthe.com)

[chops]

So, what other PROG bands are you listening to?
What LOCAL PROG bands are you trying to bring attention to?


and begin separate prog thread....now.

[dan10things]

I still think that the stranger, kexp, the tablet, etc... represent a music taste that is skewed against the mainstream, against heavy and/or progressive rock and not necessarily aligned with the tastes of the majority of Seattleites, and that this ends up preventing good local bands from connecting with an audience and prevents the audience for this music from finding out about shows and bands they might like.

Are you seriously blaming radio stations and publications for a band's inability to connect with it's audience?

[dan10things]

Just announced! RUSH & CREED at The Capitol Hill Block Party 2005!

Ha ha ha ha ha.

[progrockfan]

Are you seriously blaming radio stations and publications for a band's inability to connect with it's audience?

No, I blame listener apathy and dependence on media to tell them where to go and what to do, who to listen to and who to vote for. The fact remains that nothing gets people to come out to a show like TV, radio and press coverage, in that order.

[dan10things]

No, I blame listener apathy and dependence on media to tell them where to go and what to do, who to listen to and who to vote for. The fact remains that nothing gets people to come out to a show like TV, radio and press coverage, in that order.

You seem to be blaming everyone for a band's lack of success except the band themselves. First it was the media, now it's the fans, what if the band just ain't that fucking great? I'm not in a band, but I've booked probably 30-40 shows in the past 15 years and promoted 100s. In today's age, the Internet is the great equalizer. Evite, Livejournal, MySpace bulletins and party invites, local music list-serves... all free ways to reach a gallizion people and build hype with a few clicks. Traditional postering and hand bills in record stores works great still, I did it a ton in the past two weeks. You can also send in show listings to KEXP, KGRG, the End, the Stranger, KISW and the Weekly and get plugged for free - both KEXP and the End plugged my last show on the air. Beyond that, bands should network with other bands to bring in new crowds, work with venues and organizations on doing special nights/benefits/themes/etc. to bring people out. Band should tour a ton - it's been said 1000 times, to get popular in Seattle, you have to get popular outside of Seattle. Bands should be playing Portland, Bellingham, Spokane, the Tri-Cities, the Stanwood Hotel, Vancouver and going down the West Coast at least once or twice a year. If you want to be in local publications, you should be emailing the music editor inviting them to your show, putting them on guestlists, sending them your CD and press packs. When you have a new CD coming out, get the editor an advance copy and try to get them to hype your CD release show. Since you have a prog rock stick up your ass, I'll tell ya, I don't think I've ever received a demo CD from a local prog rock band. If the local press still isn't noticing, consider buying an ad. You will be in their pages for music fans to see and they will probably notice you. I know my publication and a handful of others can really use your money and support and will always cut bands deals for ads, it's all about paying the next printing bill. There are plenty of ways for you to promote your band for free or cheaply, Lonny from Bristle put out a great little "how to" email that's circulated around a lot of local music list-serves. And if a band wants the commercial success you keep talking about, then they should do what more commercial bands do, hire a publicist or promotion company - there are a bunch in town and they promote the hell out of the bands they work with. I think you are being far too negative and ignoring how many options bands have. There are tons of ways to promote a band or show, tons of ways to gain fans and get press, and hundreds of bands are taking advantage of them. If a band is too lazy to promote themselves and work for success, then they should hire someone to do it for them or be content playing at smaller bars for their friends - that's perfectly OK and is about what half of my friend's bands do.

ps- Music editors always will take bribes in the way of free drugs, drinks and hot chicks :)

[progrockfan]

Honestly it's because I've been to some awesome hard rock shows and been amazed at the lack of attendance there. You have some great suggestions. Who are these promotions/publicity company's you speak of? Maybe I should start a promo business and focus on hard rock and metal bands. And if a band I was promoting actually invited you to one of their shows would you really come??? Or is "invite you to a show" a euphamism for "provide you with cocaine dipped hookers"?

[Jennifer Maerz]

ps- Music editors always will take bribes in the way of...hot chicks :)

ahem...there are some (straight) female music editors out there too dan.

[Fuzed]

for real, quit your whining, come party with us July 30 & 31 at the Capitol Hill Block Party - - drink beer in the streets and watch the best bands around these here parts.

JUST ADDED! - IQU, Fall of Troy, Henry Hanks, Greg Jaspen, KJ Sawka & Electroset

YOU LIKE HEAVY ROCK/ METAL?? Do yourself a favor and check out 3 Inches of Blood - http://www.3inchesofblood.com/ - and then come see their amazing live show...the rest of the band are:

BUILT TO SPILL, THE PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, These Arms Are Snakes, Aqueduct, KUMA, 3 Inches of Blood, The Gossip, The Thermals, The Supersuckers, Shoplifting, Sick Bees, Saturday Knights, Moc Moc , The Blue Scholars, Band of Horses, Mountain Con, Raz Rez, Kingsley, Pleasurecraft, No Fi Soul Rebellion, The Bullion Brothers, Chuck Yay-Grrr!, New Fangs, The Crutches, The Village Green, Racetrack, Mikaela's Fiend, Mon Frere, Bullet Train to Vegas, Levi Fuller, The Stereo Future, Mary Timony, Doomsday 1999, Akimbo, The Ruby Doe, Stabmaster Arson, Yaphet Kotto, and Fankick!

ON THE DECIBEL STAGE: Lusine, Jacob London, Mori, Kristina Childs, Nordic Soul, DJ Eddie, Greg Skidmore, Paul Edwards, Greg Jaspen, Caro, Codebase, Obelus, Jerry Abstract, Terso, Brandy Westmore, Kris Moon, Misha, Electrosect

PERFORMANCE POETS - Matt Gano, Christa Bell, Roberto Ascalon, & Rajnii Eddins

Check out www.capitolhillblockparty.com for the full schedule and updates

Advance tickets ON SALE NOW at www.ticketswest.com - get them now, limited capacity.

[progrockfan]

Dan, could you possibly answer one of more of these questions for me?


Who are these promotions/publicity company's you speak of?

And if a band I was promoting actually invited you to one of their shows would you really come???

[Mason]

Dan, could you possibly answer one of more of these questions for me?

Not to be rude but, maybe you could take it to PM and let this thread stay on subject. Just saying...

[progrockfan]

Not to be rude but, maybe you could take it to PM and let this thread stay on subject. Just saying...
OK sorry bout that

[manhog]

Girth should be playing this thing. They're one of the best damned math-rock (a branch of prog, but open-minded punks dig it, too) bands in the country. If I overlooked their name on the bill, sorry.

Fuck yes, and right on, Mr. Segal, GIRTH IS THE SHIT!!!! (they're not at the Cap. Hill party, simply probably cuz they didn't apply... cuz their CD speaks for itself, a 2005 NW top 10 "rock" entry fer sure, "me-too" thinks!!!!). And since my gushing glands are active right now, I'll go on... ;-) --> here goes: it wasn't love at first sight for me, so to speak. At first I definitely liked GIRTH, but wasn't NUTS about them. Then they played a show at some point where everything "clicked" (knowing how to play live - dynamics/etc. - these guys are new, it's the first band for both!) and the quality of their performances has been on a neverending (and fast!) upward trajectory ever since. Simply kicking ass all over the place, every time out. And confidently, ta boot, no matter what the ups/downs/circumstances/etc - as if they're on a MISSION. Anyhow, I included them in a random list of fav bands in a previous forum post round here (link included below). Keep an eye out for the rest of these bands (if you have eclectic tastes - "mainstreamers" beware... ;-) And like any list, if I was to write it out today, it would be somewhat different. As the Italian say, "things change"... ;-)

http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=187&postcount=14

AND BTW (!!!) - GIRTH's very next show is SUNDAY JULY 24 at the Baltic Room, as part of the NO TOMORROW series. Should be killer. They will be debuting some new directions, with the addition of a special guest that night. Anyhow, if anyone's been thinking about going to this night, now's as good a time as any!!! But keep in mind that you might be seeing a more "experimental" side of Girth. Regardless, they are sure to ROCK HARD, of course. They don't get "lost" in whatever they do, as some mathy/intricate/precise are wont to do. (important note: they will not be "improvising" - their new directions are quite defined and written out)

And on another note, I can't believe the size of the HURRICANE SIZED SHITSTORM that this thread has become. Maybe someone should name it? ;-) I leave for a couple of days, and BLAMMO! I should have subscribed! Anyhow, It was fun "debating" (progrockfan, u there?) and such, but I lost interest... But WHATEVER... there's more business I wanna attend to, so I'm gonna get right down to it: I've got one last NUGGET that I need to exorcise: **LET'S GET DOWN TO SPECIFICS, progrockfan.** You've been trying to make the case that local press/radio/etc. is dropping the ball, so to speak, by not covering/airing certain genres as much as others. What you're failing to realize is that coverage is oftentimes (moreso with print than radio, of course, but anyways) geared simply towards WHAT IS NEW AND EXCITING rather than certain genres. Bands come along out of nowhere and get written about/put on the radio, etc. And scenes come and go. New ones typically come along when a band or group of bands spearheads so sharply as to "break in". In other words, there may be a rather clear REASON, or set of reasons, WHY a certain genre might not be getting much coverage, if any, and they might be related to the fact that THERE SIMPLY MAY NOT BE ANY TRULY BADASS, KICKASS, INTERESTING, ORIGINAL (ETC) LOCAL BANDS PLAYING "XYZ" SORT OF MUSIC AT THE MOMENT. Or maybe a couple or a few exist, but they have not been properly publicizing themselves to radio and/or press <b>[[[perhaps they thought it <i>an exercise in futitily</i> after talking to you??? HA HA HA HA...]]] </b> Granted, this is not always the case... some people will not give certain genres the time of day (like, say, Christian rock)... but that is oftentimes not the case. What's GOOD is GOOD, and what's GOOD *can*, in most cases, break into (indie press/radio) at any time. Maybe not on a mass level (if, say, the music is not accessible, etc.) but certainly on SOME SORTA LEVEL... (wherein complaints are not warranted, as a foot in the door is all anyone can really ask for). For example: Local blues does not get alota coverage in the Stranger or on KEXP because the local blues scene is filled with sub-par, major-copycat shit. And, in this respect, KEXP/The Stranger are ON THE BALL, although the blues fans/etc. certainly do not think so (but they are too busy getting drunk to complain, I suspect... LOL.) (Note: I say this as someone who used to live near one of our nation's hotbeds for good/kickass/REAL blues. I know what I'm talking about. There, the blues genre got some ink/airplay cuz the scene was far better than it is here). .......DIG? SO THINK ALONG THESE TERMS: sometimes, like people trying to land a job or what have you, bands do not get their 'foot in the door'... simply cuz the are NOT UP TO SNUFF (NOT GOOD *ENOUGH*).

ALL THAT SAID, please prove us all wrong by posting a TOP FIVE LIST of bands that you think are most deserving (or perhaps "no brainers"?) as far as coverage or airplay goes. ARE YOU ABLE TO DO THAT? Talking about hypothetical lack of this or lack of that or theoretical this-genre-should-covered-because-it-isn't is all fine and dandy, but as far as I'm concerned, the RUBBER MEETS THE FUCKING ROAD as THE NEEDLE STRIKES THE GROOVE. ETC ETC ETC!!!!!!! Who are local writers/dj's arguably MISSING OUT ON? GIVE US SPECIFICS. Who are local writers/dj's not writing about, and not playing, and therefore FUCKING UP? I previously pointed out that one of the bands on your list of worthy locals (PEEPSHOW) was shite. And I explained why I thought so. (a helluva good case, methinks, and YOU YOURSELF said they were kinda boring). But I did not address the rest of your too-long list. And I'd rather not. I don't have the time... SO, PLEASE DO ME (AND THE REST OF US) A BIG BIG FAVOR AND WHITTLE YOUR LIST OF GOOD BANDS DOWN TO THE ESSENTIAL TOP 5 ignored/under-covered/etc. bands, ok??? FIVE GOOD BANDS. PERIOD. MAKE YOUR CASE USING *MUSIC*, the crux of the fuckin' biscuit. Ditch all that is NEBULOUS, because NEBULOUS doesn't make for a good story, review, radio moment, or, in most cases, forum-thread.

And speaking of "progrock", and good BANDS/SPECIFICS, here's some actual/useful info biscuits for ya: the HANDS DOWN (IMNSHO) most entertaining/fun PROG-related band in the Seattle area is the SUGAR SKULLS. three girls and a guy that make "prog" FRESH and EDGY and ORIGINAL and MODERN.... (informed, in part by the new/no/punk/wave of the past both from their twentysomething tweens and prior to their formative musical years... they have big record collections...) ....*YET* what they do is ***NOT*** PRETENTIOUS or NU-METAL-ISH or TOO-WANKY or TOO-SERIOUS or FULL OF ITSELF IN THE SLIGHTEST or, god forbid, BORING and/or FULL OF BAD SONGS. :-) So be on the lookout for these kids. Oh, and they can definitely "play their instruments" - but they don't spend any time on "forums" such as these talking about this, or complaining about anything... ;-) Instead, they're LIVING LIFE (cuz they know full well that "if you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn"... so to speak... these very important words of advice are from the late great Charlie Parker, btw).

Cordially yours, manhog.

p.s. - be sure to include links to streaming audio for each of yer top 5 favs! Think of this as a fucked up version of American Idol, Stranger-Forum style!

p.p.s. - sorry to all for this TOO WORDY POST. I blame SEATTLE COFFEE. ;-)

[progrockfan]

I'm reviewing a bunch of bands... more like 20... will post my mini-reviews next week in the hard rock bands thread I started... Let'e let this thread die or be about the block party. Girth will also be in the list. Do you have a link to Sugar Skulls so I can consider them??? Maybe I need to start a zine.

Oh and hey, just want to say, Dan and Jen have been gracious and helpful and I am more optimistic about the seattle music scene every day!!!! :-D

[manhog]

I'm reviewing a bunch of bands... more like 20... will post my mini-reviews next week in the hard rock bands thread I started... Let'e let this thread die or be about the block party. Girth will also be in the list. Do you have a link to Sugar Skulls so I can consider them??? Maybe I need to start a zine. Oh and hey, just want to say, Dan and Jen have been gracious and helpful and I am more optimistic about the seattle music scene every day!!!! :-D

TWENTY? Fine, but pick a TOP FIVE LIST of what you would consider to be the top 5 bands that have not been getting much attention, if any, and deserve more. Stick to your fucking BEEF and follow thru with some EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT. Otherwise... SHIT, I'm a fixin' to reckon that you HAD NO CASE TO BEGIN WITH and will certainly suspect that if you're not willing to whittle your argument down to its essence: a handful of very good "ignored" bands, with audio links we can listen to. Everything else is bullshit. I'm not gonna listen to 20 fucking bands in order to MAYBE FIND three good ones, if that. And post it wherever, that's fine, whatever...

That said, Sugar Skulls does not have a link or album (*yet*). Watch for them in the listings. Girth can be found at http://myspace.com/girthmusic (I think that's it)

Glad to hear you're optimistic about the Seattle music scene. I am too. :-) But I must admit that I am NOT optimistic that you're gonna turn me on to even FIVE cool bands. Please prove me wrong.

Be helpful in return to Jennifer and Dan (and everyone else) -- and turn us on to some GOOD SHIT. :-) What else is there? Hot air??? ;-)

CAP. HILL BLOCK PARTY CONTENT: Sugar Skulls played the capitol hill block party last year on a small/covered beer garden stage that was not in the "listings". Twas a cool setup and they played a decent if somewhat under-rehearsed show, as the bass player had been having chronic shoulder problems that limited her playing. They, and her shoulder, have since improved... and I hope they get into the studio later this summer.

[+10 Sword Of Radical Shit]

The Sugar Skulls are amazing. Absolutely.

Don't let the fact that progrockfan likes them tarnish your enjoyment of their bombastically cute spastic punk virtuoso music.

We won't (listen to them ever).

[safetybear]

Progrockfan. I've deleted my earlier posting (which is so unfortunately quoted now) as an apology.

I read through a slew of your postings and it seems you may be turning around, getting more open to discussion. (Your last message excluded.) And so, I wish you the best in creating something new for this town that might expose people to interesting new music that you like. Tis the beauty of self-publishing!

I hope also that you find some heavier rock forums to share your reviews and opinions. The Stranger Forums just may not be the best outlet for you, as The Stranger's got a certain spectrum of coverage and Rush and SOAD are just generally outside of that. If you ran/edited a weekly paper, you could shift content to your liking, but there's only so much content space a paper can dedicate to music. I remember when The Stranger started out as a flimsy little rag... look what they've become. The Stranger gets to decide what they wanna cover and when they wanna cover it. Simple.

That said, this thread is about the Capitol Hill Block Party (yeah, right), so let us get back to intelligent conversation and no more tired name calling.

Again, the Sugar Skulls are brilliant...

xo, safetybear

[progrockfan]

Why was my reply to your post deleted? Censorship is fucking lame.

Oh, and fuck that. We are taking over. Boring, talentless music can suck a choad. Indie is dead. The nightmare will soon be over. The only thing I am interested in discussing is how soon the writers and DJs who were responsible for it will be executed.

[manhog]

Why was my reply to your post deleted? Censorship is fucking lame. Oh, and fuck that. We are taking over. Boring, talentless music can suck a choad. Indie is dead. The nightmare will soon be over. The only thing I am interested in discussing is how soon the writers and DJs who were responsible for it will be executed.

Dude, quit talkin' SHITE. "Indie" has always been dead, as this tag has never had much of anything to do with whether a band is good... or bad. Enlighten us, for a change. The nightmare you OUGHT TO be workin' against is the banality of your own postings. You're a fuckin' SPENT (one-trick) PONY.

All that said, here's some useful information:

Monday, 10/24:
God of Shamisen, Girth, The Sugar Skulls
(www.godofshamisen.com - prog-rock/metal/funk from San Francisco)
at THE RAINBOW (U-District - NE 45th & I-5)
$5 / No Cover with UW student ID until Midnight
75¢ domestics from 8 pm – 10 pm
$2 Full Sail all Night