Stop The Smoking Ban!

[meherenowie]

I never said that. So, once again, Melle is debating with a figment of his imagination. You exaggerated nearly as much. Real profits didn't go up at all. It's both interesting and sad to witness.Naw, that's the part where Dances With Women pretends to have a worthwhile existence.

Move on. You're pathetic. Go right ahead. Find a real cause this time.

[shredderwench]

This forum is hilarious!!! How did I not stumble across it earlier?!?!?

Melle, Matt, do you guys actually do that black balloon thing?

Has anyone on here done any kind of a meetup to drink and "slug it out" over the ban?

[Melle]

Melle, Matt, do you guys actually do that black balloon thing?

Matt tried it ... but I popped all the balloons with a cigarette.

[Matt]

You exaggerated nearly as much.There was no exagerration. In post 2348 (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=76202&postcount=2348), I wrote: This just in: "Numbers released by the state Department of Revenue show that bars and taverns in Washington saw a more than 20 percent increase in gross income in 2007."

That's a direct quote from http://www.tri-cityherald.com/915/story/231904.html.

A direct quote.

No exagerration. I provided a fact.

To summarize. Melle is a liar who is also an expert at twisting facts. And you're a fool for being the 28th person to fall for his troll activities. (He's already admitted that he trolls --- see his recent reference regarding his attempted disruption of an anti-smoking group.) Time to stop feeding troll Melle.

Real profits didn't go up at all.Well, then you should complain to Melle who said, in post 2402, that "the net profit for bars and restaurants has . . . increased by 7%. (my emphasis)."

Thanks for playing. And I'm not just saying that. I really do thank you for playing. You fools make it soooo easy.

[meherenowie]

Well, then you should complain to Melle who said, in post 2402, that "the net profit for bars and restaurants has . . . increased by 7%. (my emphasis)."

which is the average rate of increase for all retail of all kinds.In other words, Matt, the ban has not helped businesses one eentsy little bit.

The real issue now is the stupid 25-foot rule. 10 would be reasonable.

[Duncan]

There was no exagerration. In post 2348 (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=76202&postcount=2348), I wrote: This just in: "Numbers released by the state Department of Revenue show that bars and taverns in Washington saw a more than 20 percent increase in gross income in 2007."

That's a direct quote from http://www.tri-cityherald.com/915/story/231904.html.

A direct quote.

No exagerration. I provided a fact.

Is it true because it was in a newspaper or because it's a statistic?

[Abulafia]

Is it true because it was in a newspaper or because it's a statistic?

It's "true" because Matt doesn't "read" or understand "statistics."

He's a wee bit touched, Duncan.

[Melle]

Is it true because it was in a newspaper or because it's a statistic?

I read in the newspaper the statistic that inflation in America was at a perfectly normal 2.9% rate.

I also read that Saddam Hussein was buying weapons-grade uranium. 500 tons, the paper said. It must be true, if they know the exact amount!

Also, I read about these wonderful financial investments based on home loans across the USA---I'd-a been wary if not for the figures from Moody's, S&P, Fitch, and all those guys, telling me these were top-rated securities.

One thing's for sure---in the 21st Century, when newspaper reportage is combined with figures, you can take it to the bank!

[Duncan]

One thing's for sure---in the 21st Century, when newspaper reportage is combined with figures, you can take it to the bank!

Phew. I was starting to worry that my horoscope in today's paper was actually a lie. Now I can continue to get excited about an exciting encounter and a period of financial calm.

[Matt]

Is it true because it was in a newspaper or because it's a statistic?and
when newspaper reportage is combined with figures, you can take it to the bank!Translation: “We don’t like the Department of Revenue’s statistics. They harm our position. Therefore, we’ll cast doubt on them (just like Big Tobacco cast doubt on studies showing the harm of first-hand smoke) and, if need be, cast doubt on all statistics. IOW, it doesn’t matter what facts are presented. We will continue to be dumbasses who don’t like smoking bans. Of course, if the DOR comes out with statistics in the future that show profits went DOWN, we will be quoting that all day long cuz it suits our needs.”

Hee hee! You guys are hilarious! It’s like bowling. You set up dumbass arguments. I knock ‘em down.

But this is very interesting: Notice how you guys just keep changing your argument. First it was: “That’s misleading!! That’s an exaggeration!!!” I then demonstrate that it was fact, a direct quote, with no misleading information or exaggeration. Now it’s: “Oh, but you got your nonmisleading and nonexaggeration from a newspaper, so it . . . like . . . can’t be true or anything!! The newspaper could have misinterpreted the DOR report. Or something! Yeah!!” (And, of course, no apologies for your false claims about exaggerating, but I don't expect integrity from loser boys.)

For example, notice how Melle never raised a question about the accuracy of the initial statistic until now? He previously accepted the stat as fact but opined that net profit was a more meaningful statistic than the accurately reported gross income. But now he’s suddenly casting doubt on the gross income statistic itself. My, how odd. I guess when you’re in a corner, you start doing desperate things. Of course, he's an admitted troll, so he's probably just being a moron on purpose.

If I provide the DOR report (which, of course, you know I can), I have this strange feeling you’ll come up with yet another argument. And another. And another. It’s pathetic to watch your lame escape attempts. Like children with fingers in their ears.

So, yes, income and profits went up. Kinda ruins your argument that 901 has been bad for business. Heck, even the head dumbass, Melle, claimed that profits for bars & taverns were average (hypocritically, he expects us to believe his statistics when it suits him --- giggle). But, gee whillickers, if 901 was so bad for business, we’d expect profits for bars & taverns to be BELOW AVERAGE! Dumbasses!

[Melle]

If I provide the DOR report (which, of course, you know I can), I have this strange feeling you’ll come up with yet another argument. And another. And another. It’s pathetic to watch your lame escape attempts. Like children with fingers in their ears.

Yes, whatever info you have, please go ahead & provide it.

Hmmm, what's Matt so upset about? I haven't changed my argument at all; I've said the same thing all along. (To wit: the net profit for 2007 isn't particularly impressive, and since it's for 2007 vs. 2006 it doesn't tell us anything about ban vs. pre-ban profits.)

I ripped on newspapers in response to Matt, who bolstered his figures by sourcing them to a newspaper. You know, "it's in the paper so it must be true!" which some people used to actually say in previous decades. It was the first time he'd done this, which is why I responded in a different way.

(Matt, of course, knows all this, & is just being indefatigueabley himself.)

[freikja]

Umm, sweet pumpkin? You don't have the bars and restaurants anymore. This will sink in eventually. Just relax. Have a glass of water. No smoking in bars anymore. N'kay?

Um, little dick? l know. l wasn't talking about now, you fuckin moron. You were the one who brought up the past.

Oh, and conservative? Giggle. Can someone tell freakho that the vast majority of conservatives love Big Tobacco and are opposed to smoking bans, while the vast majority of liberals support smoking bans. Sheesh.

Then l'm really embarrassed that you're in the ranks. You make the rest of us look bad. Crawl back in your little hole and fuck off while you're at it.

[freikja]

I read in the newspaper the statistic that inflation in America was at a perfectly normal 2.9% rate.

I also read that Saddam Hussein was buying weapons-grade uranium. 500 tons, the paper said. It must be true, if they know the exact amount!

Also, I read about these wonderful financial investments based on home loans across the USA---I'd-a been wary if not for the figures from Moody's, S&P, Fitch, and all those guys, telling me these were top-rated securities.

One thing's for sure---in the 21st Century, when newspaper reportage is combined with figures, you can take it to the bank!

Don't forget the 9/11 coins made with original Liberian currency!

[freikja]

Translation: “We don’t like the Department of Revenue’s statistics.

Weren't you leaving? Or are you just as unstable about getting the fuck out as your statistics are?

[Matt]

I ripped on newspapers in response to Matt, who bolstered his figures by sourcing them to a newspaper. You know, "it's in the paper so it must be true!"Normally you exhibit fair reading comprehension skills, however you missed the point on this one. I was responding to meherenowie, who claimed I was exaggerating. I provided the actual quote from the newspaper to destroy his claim that I was exaggerating. I.e., since it was a direct quote, there was no exaggeration. Get it? Dumbass?

[Matt]

Yes, whatever info you have, please go ahead & provide it.I probably shouldn't bother. As I've demonstrated, you guys aren't interested in facts. You'll just come up with some other excuse. "But bar owners could have made mistakes when reporting income to the DOR." Or "But Satan possessed the DOR officer and made him report false numbers!!!" Blah blah. I look forward to your creative responses. Should be good for a laugh.

http://dor.wa.gov/docs/pubs/news/2008/nr_smokingban.pdf

Bars and taverns, which feared being hard hit by the ban on smoking in public places, generated 20.3 percent more gross income in 2007, compared to a meager 0.3 percent gain in 2006, the first full year after the smoking ban took effect in December 2005. Their average growth rate actually was stronger in the two years after I901 than in the years preceding the ballot initiative.

Oh, gorsh, Matt exaggerated and misled us!!!! Oh, limey and froth, that newspaper was WAY OFF!!! Yeah!!! My name is Melle and I'm a retard!!! Yeah!!!! I don't like facts, no sir!!! Please stop crushing all my stupid arguments, Matt!!"

Bwaaaaaahaaaaaa!!! Read it and weep, dumbasses.

[Duncan]

I probably shouldn't bother. As I've demonstrated, you guys aren't interested in facts. You'll just come up with some other excuse. "But bar owners could have made mistakes when reporting income to the DOR." Or "But Satan possessed the DOR officer and made him report false numbers!!!" Blah blah. I look forward to your creative responses. Should be good for a laugh.

http://dor.wa.gov/docs/pubs/news/2008/nr_smokingban.pdf

Bars and taverns, which feared being hard hit by the ban on smoking in public places, generated 20.3 percent more gross income in 2007, compared to a meager 0.3 percent gain in 2006, the first full year after the smoking ban took effect in December 2005. Their average growth rate actually was stronger in the two years after I901 than in the years preceding the ballot initiative.

Oh, gorsh, Matt exaggerated and misled us!!!! Oh, limey and froth, that newspaper was WAY OFF!!! Yeah!!! My name is Melle and I'm a retard!!! Yeah!!!! I don't like facts, no sir!!! Please stop crushing all my stupid arguments, Matt!!"

Bwaaaaaahaaaaaa!!! Read it and weep, dumbasses.

You're really not going to stop until you get the last word, are you?

[Melle]

I probably shouldn't bother. As I've demonstrated, you guys aren't interested in facts. You'll just come up with some other excuse. "But bar owners could have made mistakes when reporting income to the DOR." Or "But Satan possessed the DOR officer and made him report false numbers!!!" Blah blah. I look forward to your creative responses. Should be good for a laugh.

http://dor.wa.gov/docs/pubs/news/2008/nr_smokingban.pdf

Bars and taverns, which feared being hard hit by the ban on smoking in public places, generated 20.3 percent more gross income in 2007, compared to a meager 0.3 percent gain in 2006, the first full year after the smoking ban took effect in December 2005. Their average growth rate actually was stronger in the two years after I901 than in the years preceding the ballot initiative.

Oh, gorsh, Matt exaggerated and misled us!!!! Oh, limey and froth, that newspaper was WAY OFF!!! Yeah!!! My name is Melle and I'm a retard!!! Yeah!!!! I don't like facts, no sir!!! Please stop crushing all my stupid arguments, Matt!!"

Bwaaaaaahaaaaaa!!! Read it and weep, dumbasses.

Jeez, dude, you're having hysterics. Calm down.

The DOR's response to the figures is pretty similar to mine. From your link: "[The DOR] did not attempt to establish a statistical correlation between the smoking ban and revenues, nor investigate why revenues changed as they did.
'Perhaps patrons are just returning to their favored places because the alternatives were not as convenient,' said Department economist Stephen D. Smith, who compiled the numbers."

Smith doesn't sound to me like he's explaining a massive boom in business. Does he sound that way to you?

Either way, this can surely be discussed relaxedly. You're, like, about to shit your pants!

[breather]

saw some more deck smoking at the George yesterday. We're going to stamp them out.

[Matt]

You're really not going to stop until you get the last word, are you?Translation: "I have nothing substantive to say. I apologize for my false accusations. I admit that the DOR stats indicate that bar & tavern income went up 20%. Matt was right."
Jeez, dude, you're having hysterics. Calm down.Translation: "I have nothing substantive to say. I apologize for my false accusations. I admit that the DOR stats indicate that bar & tavern income went up 20%. Matt was right."

Apologies accepted.

I have to say, though, I'm surprised you tards didn't come up with some type of lame excuse. I guess it's hard to argue against fact, sweet petunias? Yeah, I guess so.

Income up 20%. Wow!!! 901 hasn't hurt business, that's for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Heck, I'm thinking of opening a bar myself! I think I'll call it: "Black Balloons." Or perhaps "I Kicked Melle's Ass Seven Ways and Then Some."

You're really not going to stop until you get the last word, are you?<end of thread>

[Melle]

Income up 20%. Wow!!!

Yeah, see, this 20% figure is---AGAIN---gross income, not net income: "Bars and taverns ... generated 20.3 percent more gross income in 2007." This leaves us exactly where we started.

The thing is, Matt, as I said in my very first response to this figure back in mid-July: If there'd been a real boom of anywhere near these proportions, we'd be hearing about net income, not gross. And when someone is trumpeting the gross & not mentioning the net, it's a fairly well-known sign that they're pumping shit up.

I have worked for some Wall Street firms (never again, thank god) and it was more or less a cliche: When a company's presentation to shareholders throws all the emphasis on its massive gross profit, or revenues, or market cap, it's because they don't want to talk about their real profits. The smell of this particular rat is widely known.

If the increase was what it's trumpeted to be, you almost wouldn't need a news article to tell about it. A 20% boom in real business? People notice things like that. Believe me, if there were 5 bar patrons where there'd previously only been 4, the change in the nightlife dynamic would be huge and quite palpable. I've never heard anything like this; have you?

901 hasn't hurt business, that's for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another thing I said last month was "I doubt Washington State's bars as a whole were much affected by the ban." In other words, I never maintained that the ban hurt bar business in Washington State. Again---I don't think you need to be quite so worked up about this.

If you want to talk to people who jizz over the 20% gross figure, just click on the regular Stranger link, or the Slog, and talk to Dan Savage and Eli Sanders. They totally agree with you. And they're pretty high-profile. You should be happy.

[Shattered Roses]

I just got back from Europe. I missed my sweet NJ smoking ban as I sat in every bar dying.

However, a smoking ban in Europe would be like a penis ban in Greenwich Village. It would destroy business, for sure. :)

[Monkeyfist]

And Matt said "The Be-Ah-Chiz finally give up".

It's funny when weak witted people such as yourself ignorantly stoop to terribly asinine modifications of Forum names and trying to sound "Hip" using slang and even in text coming off whiter than white.
Get it now Matt?
Oh, and Monkeybitch? What are you four? You and all your "Facts" should be able to collectively come up with something far better than that. But again, you equated Smoking and a woman being gang raped. So it's really apparent your the smartest person on the face of the earth. And with that you should use that gigantic intellect to do something a bit more useful, like learning to chase parked cars, and knitting underwater.
You want to get juvenile? Ding ding...

Did you parents have any kids that lived?
Does it take you 2 hours to watch 60 minutes?
Have you spent a day making minute rice?
When someone said it was chili outside did you grab a spoon and a bowl?


Try those on for size Matt, see how they fit, if you like em' they're yours. Free of charge. Because compared to your display of wit, they come off like Mike Tyson beating Paul Herman to a bloody pulp.

I digress back to the topic at hand. It is painfully obvious that the villages have been kicking out thier idiots and sending them to us to deal with. No amount of talk will sate these Jack asses, and all they will do is continue to gripe about smoke decks, and yahoo about thier precious ban. Here is the reality of it for them. Smoking isn't going anywhere for a long time. Until they ban it completely (not likely ever to happen) it's going to be in your faces, and around. Suck it up or kick rocks kids.

[Stoked2Smoke]

Ya'll need to come party in Virginia, where smoking hasn't gone anywhere ;)

Matt, you think it's pathetic for smokers to come on here and complain about the ban? Uhhh last I checked that's what the forum was for.... "Stop the Smoking Ban", ya know, that's the name of this message board? It's for the smokers. The real question is, why are YOU on here, bragging about your "victory" when it's already been said and done?

I guess you just like to argue with people. Whatever. There are a million other things impairing your health right now besides cigerettes, so until you ban every form of air pollution I don't think you've won a thing. You can act all smug about it or whatever, and tattle on resturants for allowing smoke but what have you really accomplished? If your looking for a pat on the back I don't think you'll find it here, in case you haven't noticed.

[freikja]

You had us at:
Matt is an asshole

Thank you for noticing. We will one day rule the world, one tobacco stick at a time.

l jest. Sort of.

[Stoked2Smoke]

Haha hell yeah!

Love that Bill Hicks quote, hes a funny mother fucker.

[Matt]

The following is going to be so easy that I will type it left-handed:

It's funny when weak witted people such as yourself ignorantly stoop to terribly asinine modifications of Forum names . . . Monkeybitch? What are you four?Responding to a poster named “breather,” Monkeyfist wrote the following in post 2384 (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=79892&postcount=2384): "I'm not trying to convince you of anything Mouthbreather."

Oh, look, Monkey’s face is a little red right about now. Yeah. Hypocrisy burns, doesn’t it? Yeah. (Matt stifles a giggle.)

So it's really apparent your (sic) the smartest person on the face of the earth.Glad you finally realized that.

Smoking isn't going anywhere for a long time. Until they ban it completely (not likely ever to happen) it's going to be in your faces, and around. Suck it up or kick rocks kids.It’s not in my face, not since the ban went into effect. All the bars and restaurants and bowling alleys I've been in have been completely smoke-free. It's been FANTASTIC!!! The last time I saw a smoker, she was outside, in the rain, and in about a 20 mph wind. Looked very cold. And wet. And stupid. Addiction is a horrible thing. Such is the destiny of dumbasses.

Oh, and the smoking ban will be extended, of course. This is just the beginning. Apartments will go smokefree. Beaches. Parks. Stadiums. Etc etc. So I won’t need to suck anything up, Monkey. Methinks it’s the nicotine addicts who will be the ones sucking it up, in an ever-decreasing space. Yeah. N’kay? Yeah.

[Monkeyfist]

Sorry Matt, but I think there is a hefty gob more smarmyness in Mouthbreather than Monkeybitch. I mean really, that's your come back? Well wipe it off your chin and get a better one guy.
I've read better on a laffy taffy wrapper. Take my advice stick to your inflated "Facts" and newspaper articles and leave the wit to those who earned it.
And on that note, I'm off to get my Chantrix this afternoon. Because, yes, I am quitting smoking for health concious reasons. But All you current smokers out there, do what you got to do... Don't let the Man (Matt) hold you back...

[Matt]

Sorry Matt, but I think there is a hefty gob more smarmyness in Mouthbreather than Monkeybitch.Wow, you're stupider than I thought. (And I thought you were really stupid, so that's saying a lot.)

Let's revisit: Monkey accused me of being "weak witted" because I modified forum names. I then demonstrated how Monkey did the exact same thing. That is, I demonstrated, with extreme delight and skill, Monkey's profound hypocrisy.

Ouch!

Face still a little red? Yeah. It is.

Seriously, dude, you're a tad out of your league. Even though Melle misleads and lies, at least he can draft a post that makes him sound partially intelligent. You can't even do that. So go away. Or I'll publicly spank you some more. N'kay?

So let's summarize: 901 passed in a landslide. It hasn't harmed businesses at all. In fact, gross income has gone up a whopping 20%! Employees and customers at bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, and skating rinks (including children at the latter three) can now breathe fresh air. It is a win-win for everyone! Yeaaaaah!!!!

<end of thread>

[Melle]

Of course most of us can see the point perfectly well: changing "Breather" to "MouthBreather" is funny; changing "Monkeyfist" to "Monkeybitch" is indeed terribly asinine.

An accurate observation, MF.

[Abulafia]

Jesus, Matt.

Can't you shut the fuck up and develop a less annoying habit—like smoking?

<end of Matt>

[Monkeyfist]

Who smokes in a skating rink? Last I was in one (which was some time ago), no one was smoking in it. What will you claim next, people were smoking in an illegal plastic ball pit at Chucky Cheese?
As for me being out of my league, your right, I left little league back in grade school. Thanks for noticing.
Your not winning over hearts and minds here Clown Shoes, kick rocks.

[Melle]

As for me being out of my league, your right, I left little league back in grade school.

There ya go, Matt. How does it feel?

[Matt]

Oy vey. Monkey is apparently a masochist.

Who smokes in a skating rink?No one anymore. Not since 901 went into effect.

Last (sic) I was in one (which was some time ago), no one was smoking in it.Oh, weeelly? Then if you didn't see any smoking in that ONE skating rink, then that must mean there wasn't any smoking in ANY skating rink!!! Yeah!!

(Oh, darn! Did I make your face turn red again? Oh shoot. Self-inflicted, ya think? Yeah. I think so.)

Of course, the greater point is that we ended the loopholes in the previous clean-air laws. Now ALL employees are protected; there are no more exceptions for restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, and, yes, skating rinks. ALL employees. Fair and square treatment of all employees. No more special treatment. Yep.

As for me being out of my league, your (sic) right, I left little league back in grade school. Thanks for noticing.Oh dear. Not only is Monkey red-faced from the public spanking I gave him for his hypocrisy, but now his lower lip is starting to tremble. I think he's going to cwy!! Hee hee.

Your (sic) not winning over hearts and minds here Clown Shoes, kick rocks.First, "Clown Shoes"? What are you, four? (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=80795&postcount=2447) (For those keeping track, yes, Matt has accomplished yet more hypocrisy spankage.)

Second, winning over hearts and minds? Dude, I won back when 901 passed. And I've been winning ever since. This is all icing.

901 passed in a landslide. It hasn't harmed businesses at all. In fact, gross income has gone up a whopping 20%! Employees and customers at bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, and skating rinks (including children at the latter three) can now breathe fresh air. It is a win-win for everyone! Yeaaaaah!!!!

[freikja]

I think he's going to cwy!! Hee hee.

901 passed in a landslide. It hasn't harmed businesses at all. In fact, gross income has gone up a whopping 20%! Employees and customers at bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, and skating rinks (including children at the latter three) can now breathe fresh air. It is a win-win for everyone! Yeaaaaah!!!!

Target practice + Matt the self appointed martyr, nailed to a cross: Priceless

[Matt]

Target practice + Matt the self appointed martyr, nailed to a cross: PricelessSo . . . you want me to turn my attention to you now?

Is that what you really want?

Didn't you see what happened to Monkeyfist? The guy is currently curled up in a fetal position in his dark and smelly studio apartment, mumbling incoherently, "But the skating rink had no smokers . . . I swear it! . . . and . . . and . . . I thought Mouthbreather was really really funny . . . sniff . . . "

Then he hears the floor creak and he screams, "Is that you, Matt!!??? Someone help me!! Mommy!!!!!"

Do you want a similar fate to befall you, freikja?

Please. Think this through, thoroughly, before you proceed. Because once I blow up my black balloons, there is no going back.

[Monkeyfist]

Are you in therapy currently Matt? I think it may be an avenue you should seek out.

[Stoked2Smoke]

Matt, you are one crazy dude. Go have fun in the non-smoking skating rinks.

Here's what I don't understand- how can the gov't legally allow cigerettes to be sold, put crazy taxes on them, and then give people no where to smoke them?? They are happy to reap the benefits of people's bad habits but quick to shut it down when people complain. Ah that's the government for you.

IDK, I get not being able to smoke in airports, movies theatres, etc. In an average sized town there's like what, one airport and maybe 3 movie theatres? Not many places for non-smoker to go to avoid it. On the other hand, restruants and bars are EVERYWHERE so you have way more options. and they are private businesses.. shouldn't the business owner decide? I mean it the owner wants it non-smoking thats his\her peragotive but of course the gov't will dicatate to them what to do, like usual.

[Matt]

Bwaaa haaaaa haaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008173056_websmokingban11m.html

Oh, nyeeeeeeehaaaaaahaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!

Haaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

(wipes tears of joy from eyes)

Bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa!!!!

[meherenowie]

(wipes tears of joy from eyes)Aw, look how cute.

Matt's pretending to have a stake in this one, even though no club will have him as a member.

How's your charity work going, little guy?

[Matt]

Aw, look how cute. Matt's pretending to have a stake in this one, even though no club will have him as a member.Who said I wanted to join a private club? I'm laughing for joy because ALL employees are protected, not just some. I'm happy for those employees.

If I keep hearing fantastic news like this, my head is going to explode from pure joy!!! Yeah!!!!

Hey, meherenowie, get a tissue and wipe your tears of bitterness and anger.

Meanwhile, I'm laughing my ass off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!

Two more: !!

[shredderwench]

They're still smoking away at this place even as the supreme court states the obvious.

Complain here:
http://www.metrokc.gov/health/tobacco/report.htm

[Matt]

Hey Cantiloper! Are you still lurking? If so, I wanted to congratulate your state for enacting a statewide smoking ban! It's a great day for your state!


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08255/911254-52.stm

Boy, it seems like things just keep going our way!

Meanwhile, the dumbass nicotine addicts just keep whining and sniffling and wetting their pants. Hey, cold and rainy winter's coming up. Enjoy standing outside!!! Bwwaaa haaa haa heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

<end of thread>

[Melle]

Matt, as of late your posts have climbed higher & higher into the rarified air of the stratosphere, and as I've said before, are now beyond my ability to satirize. However, I think you will enjoy this post from "Raven," of NYC's Motherboard forums; it's a bit coarser than your fine-honed approach but still I think it's right up your alley:



This Just In: Smoking Ban More Popular than Jesus!

New Yorker are crazy about their smoking ban. In a poll released today by
Toddlers For a Smoke Free New York, it was found that New Yorkers like the
smoking ban better than everything.

When asked 70% of the respondents said they have a favorable view of the ban.

When asked about anything else they held a less favorable. The Beatles only
got a 65% percentage favorable rating.

"These are astounding numbers" said Russ Sciandra, president of the
antismoking group responsible for the poll. "Don't you get it? If the ban is more popular than the Beatles and the Beatles are more popular than Jesus, than the smoking ban is more popular than Jesus.

"Now granted, critics are going to say that our poll was biased but I say
nonsense. Maybe we weren't specific about which era of the Beatles, mop tops or psychedelic, but who cares? The people have spoken and they like the smoking ban better everything in this world. The media buys this and that's all that matters, right?"

In an earlier poll the ban was shown to be more popular than the Yankees.
When asked about this fans on line at the Yankee stadium box office put it
this way. "We're OK with the Yankees, but that smoking ban, IT'S GREAT!"
As a matter of fact many die hard Yankee fans were lamenting all the years
they wasted rooting for the Yankees when it was the smoking ban that really got their juices going all along. A few had their faces painted with the
international "no smoking" sign of a slash through a cigarette.

The poll featured asked questions like "Do you think it is right for smokers
to stink up the place and endanger the health of every living being on this
planet or do you support the Smoke Free Air Act?"

A followup to this question was, "Are you a total Scumbag and support smokers who will shorten your lifespan by decades?"

The poll, which was commissioned by the group Toddlers for a Smoke Free New York, has a margin of error of about 5% and a believability factor of 0%.

[Matt]

Matt . . . I think you will enjoy this post from "Raven," of NYC's Motherboard forums; it's a bit coarser than your fine-honed approach but still I think it's right up your alleyFirst, thanks for your "fine-honed" compliment. It's about time someone finally appreciated my rhetorical abilities.

And, yes, you're right, I did enjoy it. Got quite a few chuckles out of it. I can appreciate humor, even when based on stupidity and whinery.

"A few had their faces painted with the international "no smoking" sign of a slash through a cigarette."Eerily reminiscent of my anti-901 t-shirts and black balloons. Has this Raven guy been lurking on this thread and stealing my ideas?

"The poll featured asked (sic) questions like "Do you think it is right for smokers to stink up the place and endanger the health of every living being on this planet or do you support the Smoke Free Air Act?""That is even more eerily reminiscent of my survey question from more than two years ago, in post 1765 (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=19150&postcount=1765). (Can you believe I've been putting up with your crap for 2+ years, Melle? Time flies when I'm mopping the floor with you.)

Raven is funny, but I think my survey question and results were much funnier. I put a little extra zing in my posts.

Having said all that, we know what the major difference between Raven and me is. His humor comes from anger, bitterness, childishness, and fear. My humor comes from joy, happiness, victory-based kick-assedness, and that little extra spring in my step in the early morning.

[Melle]

That is even more eerily reminiscent of my survey question from more than two years ago, in post 1765 (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=19150&postcount=1765).

The post I quoted was from 2004, BTW.

My humor comes from joy, happiness, victory-based kick-assedness, and that little extra spring in my step in the early morning.

Yeah, I know, I mean if there's one thing that's obvious about you, it's that you're an extemely happy person.

[meherenowie]

Matt, you ridiculous harpy, all you have to do is bloviate a little more to push this thread to 100 pages.

C'mon, you know you can't help yourself.

[Mr Sparkly Pants]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdIalT7r3vM&feature=related

[Matt]

Good morning,

I hope you smoketurds who live in apartments enjoy smoking in your home, cuz that may soon come to an end.

"Welcome to the latest no-smoking frontier: private homes. Smoke-free housing could become as common as no-pet policies."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/081508dnbusnosmoking.400a12a.html?npc

And that's in Texas!!!! Bush country!! Conservative land!!! Imagine what the libs are gonna do in Seattle real soon. Enjoy it while it lasts, smoketards!! Nyaa haaa heeeee.

Oh . . wait a minute . . . yes . . . I think the left side of my skull is beginning to bulge. This may be the good news that finally makes my head explode with joy. I'll keep an eye on the bulge and let you know.

Yours,
Matt

<end of thread>

[Slade]

Are all of you dumb flamers getting the kinks out with this?

Smokeing kills ya! ruins your lungs and and mouth and circulation.

Is this ignorance therapy or something for you dumb flamers?

Is your ignorant bitching the latest fad or past time?

Is it a sexual thing to have sex while you Bitch ignorantly on the stranger forums.

Dam dumb ass Flamers your as bad as seedickrun! dUh! I wont support troops or anything that supports troops so there?

Duh! oooops! I forgot I kive in america and america is supporting the troops!?

Duh! dose that mean i have to leave america so i wont support nothing that supports the troops!

Duh! Im a dumb flamer!

Shut up you door stops all of you!

[shredderwench]

the smoking ban is still unenforced at the George and Dragon in Fremont. We need to keep the heat on.
Complain here:http://www.metrokc.gov/health/tobacco/report.htm

[Melle]

If you've followed this thread for awhile, you're probably familiar with the analysis that traces the stupid excesses and distortions of the modern anti-smoking movement to the pharmaceutical industry. At first it was just a compelling theory, but IMO it's become undeniable.

Basically, bans weren't getting any traction until about a decade ago, when Big Pharma stepped in with its huge cash reserves & kicked off a monster campaign of propaganda, faux-grassroots rabble rousing, and legislation. It began in earnest in the late 90s with scenarios like this one: W.H.O. LAUNCHES PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY TO HELP SMOKERS QUIT (http://www.who.int/inf-pr-1999/en/pr99-04.html) The pharma industry is also the biggest corporate lobby in politics; ever wonder why politicians with horrible public health records suddenly act like Florence Nightengale when it comes to secondhand smoke? I don't.

Why's Big Pharma doing it? The same reason the tobacco industry tries to hook people: Money. Old-fashioned nicotine-trade dollars. If you want to pump up your profits & your stock price, get all the smokers chewing your gum. If they prefer cigarettes, make it a big pain in the ass for them to smoke: ban it on planes and in airports, ban it in bars, ban it in parks, ban it (if possible) in private homes, fire or refuse to hire smokers. But don't make tobacco illegal: the trick is to keep it legal and keep people hooked, then deny them their fix. Then you offer them the gum ...

There's another trick Big Pharma seems to have learned from Big Tobacco: endow the medical establishment, and doctors will peddle your wares.

E.g., the 2008 guidelines from the National Institutes of Health recommend that doctors prescribe pharmaceutical nicotine to every patient who smokes. http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/tobacco/treating_tobacco_use08.pdf The panel that conducted this report is plagued with ties to Big Pharma---nine panel members reported conflicts of interest in the form of funding from the pharmaceutical industry. The chair of the panel was endowed by GlaxoWellcome, the manufacturer of Wellbutrin, Commit lozenges, Committed Quitters, NiQuitin/Nicoderm, Nicabate, and Nicorette. Each of these drugs is specifically recommended by the panel. No mention is made of the fact that nicotine replacement is probably the worst method of quitting smoking.

The lead author of the guidelines, John Fiore, has received sharp criticism from the smoking cessation movement itself: "Fiore’s views are shaped by his past ties to the drug industry, and those ties still pose a conflict, at least one consumer advocate said. John Polito, a smoking cessation educator who runs the WhyQuit.com site advocating quitting 'cold turkey,' called the revised guidelines 'a sales pitch' for the drug industry." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24510715/

It gets worse. The hottest quit-smoking aid out right now---Chantix, made by Pfizer---apparently causes people to commit suicide. Lawyers USA (http://www.lawyersusaonline.com/index.cfm/archive/view/id/431683) reports that "a pharmaceutical plaintiffs' attorney who is representing Linda Collins, said his firm, Cory Watson Crowder & Degaris in Birmingham, Ala., has received more than 1,400 inquiries from Chantix users and their families. In addition to the Collins case, the firm has filed suits in state courts in Louisiana and New York. It has 200 cases, all involving suicides or suicide attempts by Chantix users." Further, "A study in May 2008 by the Institute for Safe Medication Practices, a prescription drug watchdog group based near Philadelphia, reported that in the fourth quarter of 2007, [Chantix] accounted for 988 serious injuries reported to the FDA, more than any other single drug."

Pfizer, meanwhile, has become a major sponsor of one of the biggest international anti-smoking listserves, Globalink (http://www.globalink.org/) (look for the Pfizer logo right there on the main page). Pfizer and Glaxo are sponsoring (http://www.14wctoh.org/sponsors.asp) the 2009 World Conference on Tobacco or Health. The anti-smoking orginization ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) has called for malpractice lawsuits (http://www.pr-inside.com/new-federal-medical-guidelines-could-trigger-r579630.htm) against doctors who fail to prescribe drugs for patients who smoke, in accordance with PHS guidelines (http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2000pres/20000627.html). Meanwhile, no one is trying to illegalize tobacco. It becomes clearer every day that the point, all along, was to get people hooked on the pharmaceuticals.

This is ludicrous. For years now, we have been hearing about the hazards of "secondhand smoke" (to which, after centuries of tobacco use, not one specific death has ever been attributed). Now there are thousands of people who have lost loved ones because of a drug that's only been around a couple of years. Worse, public health departments across the country are distributing such drugs en masse via quit-smoking programs and hotlines. Our taxes pay for them, our politicians shill them, our doctors glorify them, and they're killing people.

Meet the new boss.

[Melle]

BTW---one fringe benefit to writing about Big Pharma underwriting antismoking is this: It shuts Matt up. I don't think he's ever responded to the issue at all. He becomes quite uncharacteristically shy when the pharmaceutical industry is brought up.

Cool, huh?

[freikja]

So . . . you want me to turn my attention to you now?

Is that what you really want?

Are you going to intimidate me into pissing my pants on the internets? Where are my Depends!

Didn't you see what happened to Monkeyfist? The guy is currently curled up in a fetal position in his dark and smelly studio apartment, mumbling incoherently, "But the skating rink had no smokers . . . I swear it! . . . and . . . and . . . I thought Mouthbreather was really really funny . . . sniff . . . "

Then he hears the floor creak and he screams, "Is that you, Matt!!??? Someone help me!! Mommy!!!!!"

You're a little crazy, you know that, right.

Do you want a similar fate to befall you, freikja?

Please. Think this through, thoroughly, before you proceed. Because once I blow up my black balloons, there is no going back.

May the Lord bless you and keep you, my child.

[freikja]

They're still smoking away at this place even as the supreme court states the obvious.

See title.

Complain here:
http://www.bitches.com/

What can l say. Porn is better than this shit.

[freikja]

[I]Matt, as of late your posts have climbed higher & higher into the rarified air of the stratosphere, and as I've said before, are now beyond my ability to satirize.

l call bullshit. Would you like to try saying that in a strait jacket? l am willing to bet money your trapped little fingers will find their way to a keyboard.

At least l hope so.

[freikja]

Eerily reminiscent of my anti-901 t-shirts and black balloons. Has this Raven guy been lurking on this thread and stealing my ideas?

l'm sure it'd be nice to think so.

His humor comes from anger, bitterness, childishness, and fear. My humor comes from joy, happiness, victory-based kick-assedness, and that little extra spring in my step in the early morning.

Yes! And the Easter Bunny exists! And Jesus is happy with the world he left behind! He loves you too, don't forget. Seriously. He does.

[freikja]

BTW---one fringe benefit to writing about Big Pharma underwriting antismoking is this: It shuts Matt up. I don't think he's ever responded to the issue at all. He becomes quite uncharacteristically shy when the pharmaceutical industry is brought up.

Cool, huh?

l was wondering when l could take a breather and have a fucking smoke.

[breather]

l was wondering when l could take a breather and have a fucking smoke.


ahahahaha!!!!! take a BREATHER! haaaaaaa!!! I love it.

The George is headed for the spanking that they seem to need honey.

[Monkeyfist]

ahahahaha!!!!! take a BREATHER! haaaaaaa!!! I love it.

The George is headed for the spanking that they seem to need honey.

Terrible comeback, and you still have some left on your chin...

[Matt]

Oh . . wait a minute . . . yes . . . I think the left side of my skull is beginning to bulge. This may be the good news that finally makes my head explode with joy. I'll keep an eye on the bulge and let you know.As promised, here's an update on my condition. The bulge is still there. I recently had a GPS unit attached to each side of the bulge so that scientists can measure any movements, to the millimeter, similar to the way they monitor volcanoes.

For a while there was no significant movement, however a seismic event just occurred that led the monitoring team to upgrade to Condition Red. The event? As Breather warned would happen, George & Dragon has been sued and is about to get spanked!!!

http://www.komonews.com/news/30863929.html

Notice the following:
At the George & Dragon, health inspectors observed smoking eight times and received 15 complaints, according to the lawsuit.

Yep, that's right, the complaints that shredderwench, breather, and I encouraged others to file resulted in this momentous and delightful result. Like they say, the squeaky wheel gets the law-breaking fuckers nailed. Sh-bam!

The joy associated with the G&D nail-ation has increased the kickass-generated magma to unprecedented temperature levels, in turn enlarging said bulge. There is now a noticeable fissure and officials have asked for a voluntary evacuation within 3 meters of my cranium.

Yes, George & Dragon is going down.

Can you guess how I'll conclude this missive? Yes, that right:

Bwaaa haaaaa haaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


<end of thread>

[fawkes]

Wow. This is still going on? I've disappeared for like a goddamn year, and this is still here?

This is officially the herpes of the Stranger forums.

[Ballard Pimp]

'Fraid so, fawkes. I think of it as the Dracula of threads, but herpes is more fitting.

[Shattered Roses]

This is officially the herpes of the Stranger forums.

Funny. I thought that was me.

[meherenowie]

Funny. I thought that was me.Nah; the thread's the herpes, and Matt's the biggest pustule evar.

[Shattered Roses]

Is this really such a big issue?

In NJ, the ban has proved not to hurt businesses at all. Smokers did not complain very much, as entrances to buildings were OK to smoke near.

But, if we were to repeal the ban, I don't see anyone around here who would start protesting it.

It really doesn't matter to anyone that much. I mean, its nice that I don't smell like smoke when I come back from a diner anymore, but that smell is very charicteristic of a NJ diner and I'm sure there are people nostalgic enough to want the smell back.

[meherenowie]

Apparently there's a 25-foot-from-any-entrance-or-window rule in Seattle, which is fucking ridiculous and, in many places, impossible. An outdoor deck seems to be the issue, now. Most smokers are perfectly willing to be normally considerate, aware of the prevailing breeze, and so forth. I've been extra careful since I switched to cigars, because I always disliked their smell.

PA diners just lost that cigarette fragrance too, NY did a while ago. It was nice to linger over coffee and a cigarette, back in the day, but I guess they get to turn tables that much faster. They're losing me for dessert, though. So it's a wash.

[freikja]

At the George & Dragon, health inspectors observed smoking eight times and received 15 complaints, according to the lawsuit.

Yep, that's right, the complaints that shredderwench, breather, and I encouraged others to file resulted in this momentous and delightful result. Like they say, the squeaky wheel gets the law-breaking fuckers nailed. Sh-bam!

A whopping 15 complaints, huh. So between the three of you, you each complained five times?

As l said, the G&D will never succumb to this bullshit fascism. Maybe they'll pay their fines. Maybe. And maybe they'll just move all the smokers to the back end of the porch, but it won't last for long, and l think eventually the cops and health department will get bored and start ignoring complaints. Eventually, the G&D will go back to being the smoking pub it always has been. Besides, the fines are a measly $100. Does it tell you just how little the state cares about this shit when they're only charging $100 for violations? That's called a requisite fine. ln other words, they imposed it only because it's a stupid rule that needs some minimal fine to enforce it. l certainly don't see the state shutting the whole business down.

[MamaJo]

l would like it if they would stop smoking on decks at places. l have asthma so l can't breath too well if l want to go somewhere where they are smoking. Thank you matt, breather and shredderwench!

[fawkes]

I mean, damn. I support smoking bans inside (not the 25 feet from the entrance thing, that's taking it a little far, in my opinion) but Matt honestly makes me wonder if my support is empowering insanity like his. If so, my support is officially repealed.

By the way, good to see you again BP, SR.

[Shattered Roses]

By the way, good to see you again BP, SR.

You risk losing all respect here if you say it's "good to see" me.

[freikja]

I mean, damn. I support smoking bans inside (not the 25 feet from the entrance thing, that's taking it a little far, in my opinion) but Matt honestly makes me wonder if my support is empowering insanity like his. If so, my support is officially repealed.

Hi, l'm Freikja. You can call me FKJ, FJ, or whatever suits you as long as you don't call me ugly. l like you.

Anyway, l agree, and don't think there's anything ultimately wrong with a smoking ban inside, despite the fact that l'm a smoker. l smoke less during the cold months than l would otherwise as a result, and that's not a bad thing.

However, until all the smokers quit, or some mass Smoker Exodus happens in this town, it is insane to ask businesses to force their well-paying, loyal patrons into the rain to smoke when there's a perfectly functional covered patio designed to shelter them, and is pushing the law further than it has the right to go. lt might as well be asking every place in town to just put up signs that say "Nonsmokers only" and cut their profits in half. Yay, segregation! Wooohoo, stripping of civil rights and running of small business into the ground!

l'm truly disturbed that this shit isn't obvious, especially when the majority of nonsmokers who have chipped in here support the ban but not the 25-foot-rule.

l have a couple of questions.
How many of you smokers have been part of that get together at the bar or restaurant, and inadvertently left the one nonsmoker alone at a table of ten - or stayed behind so he wouldn't be the only one?
How many of you nonsmokers have been the only one left, twiddling your thumbs and basically holding the table down while your friends smoked - or followed them out into the cold (and possibly lost the table) just so you wouldn't look or feel like the odd man out? You may have been perfectly comfortable hanging by yourself inside, but it's probably happened to you at some point. Unless you hang only with your kind.

Among some younger and/or immature groups, this might prompt resentment between the smokers and non, and that sucks. What sucks worse is that no matter where we're forced to smoke, as long as it's not inside, we're going to be segregated to some degree for some amount of time. Which is ridiculous when these are the people you came to hang out with. l don't mind the ban itself, take care to respect my nonsmoking friends, and they don't really care that l smoke, because we're friends. And it's just plain fucked up that l have to deal with the law-imposed guilt trip of smoking outside--even if my nonsmokin friend doesn't mind coming with--and that we have to be inconvenienced simply because she doesn't give a shit about the 25 footer either.

[JSin]

l would like it if they would stop smoking on decks at places. l have asthma so l can't breath too well if l want to go somewhere where they are smoking. Thank you matt, breather and shredderwench!

I would like it if they made all fragrances illegal. Oppression by the masses becomes a bit distasteful when it falls in one's personal lap.

JSin

[freikja]

I would like it if they made all fragrances illegal.

Nooooooo! Not my Egyptian musk and amber oil!!! l might not get laid otherwise.

[fawkes]

Hi, l'm Freikja. You can call me FKJ, FJ, or whatever suits you as long as you don't call me ugly. l like you.

Anyway, l agree, and don't think there's anything ultimately wrong with a smoking ban inside, despite the fact that l'm a smoker. l smoke less during the cold months than l would otherwise as a result, and that's not a bad thing.

However, until all the smokers quit, or some mass Smoker Exodus happens in this town, it is insane to ask businesses to force their well-paying, loyal patrons into the rain to smoke when there's a perfectly functional covered patio designed to shelter them, and is pushing the law further than it has the right to go. lt might as well be asking every place in town to just put up signs that say "Nonsmokers only" and cut their profits in half. Yay, segregation! Wooohoo, stripping of civil rights and running of small business into the ground!

l'm truly disturbed that this shit isn't obvious, especially when the majority of nonsmokers who have chipped in here support the ban but not the 25-foot-rule.

Nice to meet you, Freikja. I'm Fawkes, I used to post alot around here, been gone for a while, but I'm back now. Somehow, this thread is still going, which is depressing, because when I left, it had already gotten unbearably tiresome. (By the way, has anyone gotten a count of Matt's "<end of thread>"'s?)

But yeah, if we're going to keep smoking legal, then we shouldn't treat smokers like criminals. I understand not letting people smoke inside, but the 25 foot rule is just hilariously over-exaggerating the point. Get rid of it, let smokers smoke on an outdoor patio if you have it, and leave well enough alone. Almost every smoker I know doesn't mind going outside to smoke their cigarette, so don't force them to walk 25 feet away and help feed Matt's idiocy.

And don't worry SR, I think anyone here would say that they like to see you around. It's good to have a disagreeing voice.

[freikja]

(By the way, has anyone gotten a count of Matt's "<end of thread>"'s?)

Stopped counting. lt's classic Troll 101. Threaten to leave, get everyone all happy and shit, and then slither back.

[fawkes]

Stopped counting. lt's classic Troll 101. Threaten to leave, get everyone all happy and shit, and then slither back.

He's been doing that since the start of this thread. If it wasn't for the fact that this thread is rapidly approaching 2, 500 posts (it may have surpassed it while I wasn't paying attention) I'd find it funny.

By the way, thank you to all the smokers and anti-ban people for not making the easy jokes when Matt talks about his "bulge". I salute your maturity.

[Shattered Roses]

By the way, thank you to all the smokers and anti-ban people for not making the easy jokes when Matt talks about his "bulge". I salute your maturity.

Matt's saluting them too... with his bulge!

snicker snicker

[meherenowie]

By the way, thank you to all the smokers and anti-ban people for not making the easy jokes when Matt talks about his "bulge". I salute your maturity.What maturity? I just think of Matt as a eunuch.

[breather]

Well the George And Dragon is on their way to compliance (whether they'll admit it or not) as the stakes are for real now.

Here's what to watch for next: State Senators Jean Kohl - Welles and Ken Jacobsen, along with Speaker of the House Frank Chopp start playing footsie with bar owners over changing the 25' rule.

We nixed it last time before it got anywhere and are ready to do so again.

Now if all of you George fans want to do them a favor, complain about other area bars that allow deck smoking and have an unfair advantage over the George.

[fawkes]

Well the George And Dragon is on their way to compliance (whether they'll admit it or not) as the stakes are for real now.

Here's what to watch for next: State Senators Jean Kohl - Welles and Ken Jacobsen, along with Speaker of the House Frank Chopp start playing footsie with bar owners over changing the 25' rule.

We nixed it last time before it got anywhere and are ready to do so again.

Now if all of you George fans want to do them a favor, complain about other area bars that allow deck smoking and have an unfair advantage over the George.

A $100 fine is not raising the stakes at all.

I honestly swear that I agree with an inside smoking ban. I believe the evidence that says smoking is dangerous, and I like the fact that inside, smoking is gone. That being said, there is absolutely no reason to make a 25 foot rule. It's ridiculous.

Matt, breather, and the other guys who've been on here FOR TWO YEARS (yes, that is the reality, you've been "fighting the good fight" for the public lungs (when most people are apathetic to the idea anyway) for two years now) need to chill out.

Do I smoke? No. Do I think it's kind of a nasty habit? Yes. (Though I can't say the smell bothered me, I was born without a sense of smell)

However, my personal dislike of smoking is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. The only reason to legislate things like smoking is if it is directly causing a harm. Open-deck smoking causing health problems for other people is damn near impossible.

Thus, please realize that this is such a phenomenal non-issue, and the fact that you've spent two years complaining about this only makes me further dissatisfied with the priorities most Americans make, in that you'd rather go around looking for smokers in a bar, then to do anything about the plethora of other problems out there.

[breather]

Thus, please realize that this is such a phenomenal non-issue, and the fact that you've spent two years complaining about this only makes me further dissatisfied with the priorities most Americans make, in that you'd rather go around looking for smokers in a bar, then to do anything about the plethora of other problems out there.[/QUOTE]


Well gosh Fawkes, if you had just made that known from the start we would've stopped a long time ago. No, really.

It's about more than a c-note a day now, these suits often seek injunctions and restraining orders and these things can impact operating permits and liquor licenses.

I mention this so that people cut the mgmt some slack, they no longer have options to fight their good fight.

[Smalan Ithee]

Here's what to watch for next: State Senators Jean Kohl - Welles and Ken Jacobsen, along with Speaker of the House Frank Chopp start playing footsie with bar owners over changing the 25' rule.That's one interpretation. Another would be that they have some common fucking sense.
Now if all of you George fans want to do them a favor, complain about other area bars that allow deck smoking and have an unfair advantage over the George.Nice try. Or one could continue to patronize the G&D, spend money there to make up for the ridiculous fines and lawyer fees.

Sweet lord, I can't believe we're still arguing over this shit 3 years later. Seriously. Get the goddamn stick out of your ass, leave the decks alone, and find something else to which you can devote your righteous indignation.

And people wonder why Seattle folks are perceived as fucking anal-retentive busybodies. Act like you've got some goddamn sense.

[fawkes]

you're right SI, it has been 3 years, not 2.

My depression has hit a new, lower plateau.

I hoped I could've dissuaded some people from continuing this, but since it's apparent I can't, I'm just going to pretend this thread no longer exists.

[freikja]

That's one interpretation. Another would be that they have some common fucking sense.
Nice try. Or one could continue to patronize the G&D, spend money there to make up for the ridiculous fines and lawyer fees.

Which is what l did last night. And now there's a little smoking tent taking up two spaces in the parking lot.

l said this somewhere else a while back. l'm going to say it again. Forcing smokers to completely abandon their beers in order to smoke increases the risk of danger to anyone who doesn't have someone watching their drink. Unless someone has a friend keeping an eye on their drink (or finishes it off before going outside), it would be pretty easy to slip something in it. l realized this the very first night the ban went into effect and have been religious about protecting my drink since. However, given that drunk people are less likely to remember things as the night wears on, the risk goes up again for anyone not aware of this fact. l've done my share of informing anyone and everyone l'm hanging out with, and l hope others here will point it out to anyone abandoning their drink while smoking, but this is precisely why the 25-foot rule angers me so much. lt's not about having my drink and cigarette too, though that is nice. lt's about safety, and it amazes me that this issue hasn't been addressed, especially when date rape statistics have risen in England and Scotland since their bans went into effect.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/mar/26/smoking.scotland
http://www.amlibpub.com/liberty_blog/2008/04/death-by-smoking-ban.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1103369/posts
http://drugnewsvault.blogspot.com/2006/03/smoking-ban-will-lead-to-muggings-and.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/north_yorkshire/7106467.stm

lf any of you non-smoking, fanatical assholes tries to tell me that people should simply stop drinking or smoking, just imagine if it was your sister, mother, or daughter whose drink got spiked.

[shredderwench]

... Forcing smokers to completely abandon their beers in order to smoke increases the risk of danger to anyone who doesn't have someone watching their drink. ..... However, given that drunk people are less likely to remember things as the night wears on, the risk goes up again for anyone not aware of this fact. l've done my share of informing anyone and everyone l'm hanging out with, and l hope others here will point it out to anyone abandoning their drink while smoking, but this is precisely why the 25-foot rule angers me so much. lt's not about having my drink and cigarette too, though that is nice. lt's about safety, and it amazes me that this issue hasn't been addressed, especially when date rape statistics have risen in England and Scotland since their bans went into effect.

lf any of you non-smoking, fanatical assholes tries to tell me that people should simply stop drinking or smoking, just imagine if it was your sister, mother, or daughter whose drink got spiked.

Holy fucking christ, you are stupid!!!! Don't want your drink spiked? Don't leave it dumbass!!

Worried about the safety of yourself and others?? Quit smoking you freaking RETARD!!!!

[fawkes]

Worried about the safety of yourself and others?? Quit smoking you freaking RETARD!!!!

While I do think freikja's example is a little indirect in the effects of smoking bans, I have to pose this question:

How many people here want to ban smoking, make it completely illegal?

Unless you want that, and you advocate the full and unequivocal abolition of smoking, you should not consistently support measures that cause untoward discomfort to smokers.

Smokers are humans, and generally reasonable humans. They are perfectly willing to go outside to smoke, or to smoke downwind so as to not bother those who choose not to smoke.

If we are going to leave smoking legal (which it should be, the state isn't a parent) then we should stop treating smokers like criminals. Almost all of them are perfectly willing to indulge their habit in a way that does not harm anyone else, so we should stop posting ridiculous measures (the 25 foot rule) to force them to stop.

Either we leave smoking legal (which is the correct thing to do) or we get rid of over-exaggerated anti-smoking measures.

[Shattered Roses]

How many people here want to ban smoking, make it completely illegal?


Can you imagine if we did? God, that worked so well with alcohol.


Smokers are humans, and generally reasonable humans. They are perfectly willing to go outside to smoke, or to smoke downwind so as to not bother those who choose not to smoke.


Something about this turns me off, but I can't place it.

Though I do not smoke, I never minded smoking sections in restaurants. I also never minded smoking in bars. If they were to remove the ban, I would probably not fuss over it. I also wouldn't change my evening plans.

I'm surprised how well most of the smokers have taken the ban. If someone told me I couldn't use chapstick (one of my addictions) in public, I'd be pretty pissed. For them to actually go outside without complaining is really a testament to their commitment to not being assholes.

On the flip side, you have complete dicks trying to segregate smokers even more. When people are so willing to smoke outside to comply, I believe the proper response is "Thank you for not smoking near me" and not "Don't smoke anywhere near me. Don't like it? Well stop smoking you turd."


Either we leave smoking legal (which is the correct thing to do) or we get rid of over-exaggerated anti-smoking measures.

We can't do both?

[fawkes]

We can't do both?

Yeah, I just realized I messed that choice up. I was in a rush when I wrote it.

I meant to say that we either make it illegal (which would be wrong) or we get rid of the onerous measures.

Sorry for any confusion.

[shredderwench]

well...as of this writing the George and Dragon is in compliance with the smoking ban. It's about time. And it's now in there best interest to see other bars comply. YAY!!!

[Rain Monkey]

lf any of you non-smoking, fanatical assholes tries to tell me that people should simply stop drinking or smoking, just imagine if it was your sister, mother, or daughter whose drink got spiked.

Or your delegate:

He met her in the bar of the swank hotel and invited her to his room. Once there, the woman fixed the drinks and told him to get undressed.

And that, the delegate to the Republican National Convention told police, was the last thing he remembered.

When he awoke, the woman was gone, as was more than $120,000 in money, jewelry and other belongings.

The thief's take stunned cops.

"It's very, very, very rare," Minneapolis Police Sgt. William Palmer said. "I can think of a couple of burglaries where we had that much stolen, but it's the first time I've heard of this kind of deal."

In a statement released today, Gabriel Nathan Schwartz, 29, of Denver, put the figure at much less.

"It's embarrassing to admit that I was a target of a crime. I was drugged and had about $50,000 of personal items stolen, not the inflated number that the media is reporting from an inaccurate police report," he said.

"As a single man, I was flattered by the attention of a beautiful woman who introduced herself to me. I used poor judgment."

Contacted by the Denver Post Monday, Schwartz declined to speak on the record. In the statement released today, Schwartz said he would decline further interview requests.

The haul included a $30,000 watch, a $20,000 ring, a necklace valued at $5,000, earrings priced at $4,000 and a Prada belt valued at $1,000, police said.

Schwartz is a single attorney and a fixture in Colorado Republican politics. He was one of the state's delegates to the convention this month in St. Paul.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_10472581?source=most_viewed

[Matt]

well...as of this writing the George and Dragon is in compliance with the smoking ban. It's about time. And it's now in there best interest to see other bars comply. YAY!!!ALERT! ALERT!!!

The GPS sensors have reported significant movement!!!! There is now a Stage III mandatory evacuation in progress. Please move at least 50 yards from Matt's cranium immediately!!!!!

[freikja]

Holy fucking christ, you are stupid!!!! Don't want your drink spiked? Don't leave it dumbass!!

Sigh. Apparently your reading comprehension is flawed, but then, you're a twit, so it's not much of a surprise.

l wasn't talking about me. Let me highlight a point from my paragraph.

l realized this the very first night the ban went into effect and have been religious about protecting my drink since.

The clear point here is that l've taken care to protect my drink. That includes finishing it off if necessary, or leaving it with a friend. Now, if you'd actually read what l said, you could have saved yourself from looking like more of a dick than you already are. The point was that it will happen to others, to young women who can't handle their liquor, and aren't so smart about the decisions they make, or even to men. l can't stop their drinking, but they exist nonetheless. Really, this isn't about me, as you seem to so fervently want to believe. lt could happen to your sister, brother, daughter, or employee. Evidence seems to show that it *has* happened, and that's something that shouldn't happen to anyone, period. What are we doing to prevent that? What should we be doing? Or is your desire to see smokers die so vicious that robbery and rape are just bonuses?

Worried about the safety of yourself and others?? Quit smoking you freaking RETARD!!!!

Yes, sir, Hitler, sir! Or would you be Eva?

[freikja]

While I do think freikja's example is a little indirect in the effects of smoking bans, I have to pose this question:

l agree it's an indirect point, but it wasn't until l found some indication of its risk that l thought it worth mentioning. l'm curious if any similar studies have been done in nonsmoking states. l admit that in one of the articles l posted where it listed a whole slew of 'smoking-related' crimes, that a good number of them simply seemed to happen while someone was smoking, but not because of it. l took some of that with a grain of salt, including the site it sourced for those stories. But l do wonder what kind of actual smoking and/or ban-related stuff has happened in the states that have banned it.

How many people here want to ban smoking, make it completely illegal?

Unless you want that, and you advocate the full and unequivocal abolition of smoking, you should not consistently support measures that cause untoward discomfort to smokers.

Smokers are humans, and generally reasonable humans. They are perfectly willing to go outside to smoke, or to smoke downwind so as to not bother those who choose not to smoke.

If we are going to leave smoking legal (which it should be, the state isn't a parent) then we should stop treating smokers like criminals. Almost all of them are perfectly willing to indulge their habit in a way that does not harm anyone else, so we should stop posting ridiculous measures (the 25 foot rule) to force them to stop.

Either we leave smoking legal (which is the correct thing to do) or we get rid of over-exaggerated anti-smoking measures.

Nicely put, thank you.

[freikja]

Or your delegate:

Maybe she redistributed the wealth among the poor?

[shredderwench]

wanna help out the George and Dragon?

complain about the illegal patio smoking going on down the street at Nectar

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthServices/health/drugs/tobacco/report.aspx

no sense having different rules for different bars

[Shattered Roses]

wanna help out the George and Dragon?

complain about the illegal patio smoking going on down the street at Nectar


How does help anyone but yourself? If you don't like the patio smoking, don't go.

[freikja]

wanna help out the George and Dragon?

complain about the illegal patio smoking going on down the street at Nectar

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthServices/health/drugs/tobacco/report.aspx

no sense having different rules for different bars

Except there are parts of THAT patio they have every right to smoke on because they are over 25 feet away from the door. Nice try, asswipe.

[shredderwench]

well I haven't taken a tapemeasure to the place but it looks like its less than 25 feet. and since the staff has to stand and work out there its gottaq be smokefree.
and what do you care about more Freikja, a place to smoke or not seeing the George and Dragon lose customers to someone who doesn't have to follow the rules?

[meherenowie]

'Course they would be following the rules at over 25', and your overweening ban doesn't specify anything about outdoor workplaces, does it? Or does it?

Just amend the stupid thing to something more reasonable, as I believe was proposed downthread before the ban was ever passed as an issue that could be addressed afterwards, and get on with your tiny little life of shredded emptiness.



And stop smirking like that if you still can, ick.

Filthy, disgusting, unclean and bitter habit you've got there.

[freikja]

well I haven't taken a tapemeasure to the place but it looks like its less than 25 feet.

Wait. So you don't actually know? That's priceless. But no. The only part that is less than twenty five feet is right by the front door. There are ways around that.


and since the staff has to stand and work out there its gottaq be smokefree.

There are ways around that too.

and what do you care about more Freikja, a place to smoke or not seeing the George and Dragon lose customers to someone who doesn't have to follow the rules?

l care about my rights. l care about the people who run the places l frequent having the right as owners to make their own decisions as long as they generate business. And l care about them being able to do so without being forced to put loyal paying customers out in the rain.

Not that any of this matters to you, of course, since your only care seems to be inconveniencing a group of people who are simply trying to accommodate everyone, not just you.

[freikja]

l'm putting together a petition to repeal the 25-foot rule, and allow bar and restaurant owners to make their own decisions about outside smoking in their establishments. After talking with the owner of the George, not only are they having a hell of a time policing people out on the deck on busy nights (and especially on nights like Halloween weekend), it seems to be getting increasingly difficult to monitor who has been ID'd that's standing outside smoking without making everyone they don't recognize go back through the line again, even if they've already been inside. l can foresee that becoming a real problem and encouraging trouble on the part of pissed of clientele, which sucks, since the George almost never has fights or has to physically throw people out. Not to mention that now, half the bar is milling around the parking lot and out in the street, and possibly putting themselves in danger. The George gets fined every time someone lights up, but they're having trouble catching everyone who either isn't aware of the rule, or who just forget because they've been used to it for so long, so that means they're going to have to have someone - either an employee or a regular - out on the deck and keeping an eye out all the time. l'm pretty sure this has been taxing on the entire crew working there, and l KNOW the owners are fed up. They also seem to be concerned with unattended drinks, and l wonder if that doesn't mean they've had some problem with that that l'm not currently aware of. l intend to ask.

Anyway, l'm drawing up a petition. l've never done that before, so anyone who knows something about this and is interested in helping, l'd love to hear suggestions and thoughts from you. And l will obviously be welcoming signatures. Thanks.

[Rain Monkey]

Are you planning on writing a state-wide initiative and petitioning to put it on the ballot?

[freikja]

Are you planning on writing a state-wide initiative and petitioning to put it on the ballot?

l guess so. l'll admit l have NO experience with this, so l am not educated on what all this involves, but as l've said several times, these people are my friends, and frankly, l'm tired of watching them suffer. lf that means devoting a large chunk of my time, l'm willing to do that. lt's a stupid fucking rule, and it just gives assholes like these three another opportunity to be assholes. l'll go to every single business in town if l have to. And more.

[Rain Monkey]

l guess so. l'll admit l have NO experience with this, so l am not educated on what all this involves, but as l've said several times, these people are my friends, and frankly, l'm tired of watching them suffer. lf that means devoting a large chunk of my time, l'm willing to do that. lt's a stupid fucking rule, and it just gives assholes like these three another opportunity to be assholes. l'll go to every single business in town if l have to. And more.

If there was a workshop on writing statewide initiatives, I'd like to take the class. Don't know yet what my issue would be, but I have issues often enough.

Wouldn't want to take the class from Tim Eyeman, however.

[freikja]

If there was a workshop on writing statewide initiatives, I'd like to take the class. Don't know yet what my issue would be, but I have issues often enough.

Wouldn't want to take the class from Tim Eyeman, however.

Well, l trust in my ability to write something coherent and intelligent. l've just never written anything before, so some tips beyond my research would be helpful.

[freikja]

If you've followed this thread for awhile, you're probably familiar with the analysis that traces the stupid excesses and distortions of the modern anti-smoking movement to the pharmaceutical industry. At first it was just a compelling theory, but IMO it's become undeniable.

Basically, bans weren't getting any traction until about a decade ago, when Big Pharma stepped in with its huge cash reserves & kicked off a monster campaign of propaganda, faux-grassroots rabble rousing, and legislation. It began in earnest in the late 90s with scenarios like this one: W.H.O. LAUNCHES PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY TO HELP SMOKERS QUIT (http://www.who.int/inf-pr-1999/en/pr99-04.html) The pharma industry is also the biggest corporate lobby in politics; ever wonder why politicians with horrible public health records suddenly act like Florence Nightengale when it comes to secondhand smoke? I don't.

Why's Big Pharma doing it? The same reason the tobacco industry tries to hook people: Money. Old-fashioned nicotine-trade dollars. If you want to pump up your profits & your stock price, get all the smokers chewing your gum. If they prefer cigarettes, make it a big pain in the ass for them to smoke: ban it on planes and in airports, ban it in bars, ban it in parks, ban it (if possible) in private homes, fire or refuse to hire smokers. But don't make tobacco illegal: the trick is to keep it legal and keep people hooked, then deny them their fix. Then you offer them the gum ...

There's another trick Big Pharma seems to have learned from Big Tobacco: endow the medical establishment, and doctors will peddle your wares.

E.g., the 2008 guidelines from the National Institutes of Health recommend that doctors prescribe pharmaceutical nicotine to every patient who smokes. http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/tobacco/treating_tobacco_use08.pdf The panel that conducted this report is plagued with ties to Big Pharma---nine panel members reported conflicts of interest in the form of funding from the pharmaceutical industry. The chair of the panel was endowed by GlaxoWellcome, the manufacturer of Wellbutrin, Commit lozenges, Committed Quitters, NiQuitin/Nicoderm, Nicabate, and Nicorette. Each of these drugs is specifically recommended by the panel. No mention is made of the fact that nicotine replacement is probably the worst method of quitting smoking.

The lead author of the guidelines, John Fiore, has received sharp criticism from the smoking cessation movement itself: "Fiore’s views are shaped by his past ties to the drug industry, and those ties still pose a conflict, at least one consumer advocate said. John Polito, a smoking cessation educator who runs the WhyQuit.com site advocating quitting 'cold turkey,' called the revised guidelines 'a sales pitch' for the drug industry." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24510715/

It gets worse. The hottest quit-smoking aid out right now---Chantix, made by Pfizer---apparently causes people to commit suicide. Lawyers USA (http://www.lawyersusaonline.com/index.cfm/archive/view/id/431683) reports that "a pharmaceutical plaintiffs' attorney who is representing Linda Collins, said his firm, Cory Watson Crowder & Degaris in Birmingham, Ala., has received more than 1,400 inquiries from Chantix users and their families. In addition to the Collins case, the firm has filed suits in state courts in Louisiana and New York. It has 200 cases, all involving suicides or suicide attempts by Chantix users." Further, "A study in May 2008 by the Institute for Safe Medication Practices, a prescription drug watchdog group based near Philadelphia, reported that in the fourth quarter of 2007, [Chantix] accounted for 988 serious injuries reported to the FDA, more than any other single drug."

Pfizer, meanwhile, has become a major sponsor of one of the biggest international anti-smoking listserves, Globalink (http://www.globalink.org/) (look for the Pfizer logo right there on the main page). Pfizer and Glaxo are sponsoring (http://www.14wctoh.org/sponsors.asp) the 2009 World Conference on Tobacco or Health. The anti-smoking orginization ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) has called for malpractice lawsuits (http://www.pr-inside.com/new-federal-medical-guidelines-could-trigger-r579630.htm) against doctors who fail to prescribe drugs for patients who smoke, in accordance with PHS guidelines (http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2000pres/20000627.html). Meanwhile, no one is trying to illegalize tobacco. It becomes clearer every day that the point, all along, was to get people hooked on the pharmaceuticals.

This is ludicrous. For years now, we have been hearing about the hazards of "secondhand smoke" (to which, after centuries of tobacco use, not one specific death has ever been attributed). Now there are thousands of people who have lost loved ones because of a drug that's only been around a couple of years. Worse, public health departments across the country are distributing such drugs en masse via quit-smoking programs and hotlines. Our taxes pay for them, our politicians shill them, our doctors glorify them, and they're killing people.

Meet the new boss.

This is a lot to quote, l know, but it is one of the best contributions in this entire thread. l think l fell in like with you a little with this post (and l actually think l may have missed it in following the thread, as yours isn't the only post l don't remember reading), and have l told you lately?

l've been reading back through the thread, and l just need to say, Mz. lthee, well, you know you kick ass. MF, l've loved you from the moment l first read you, and last, but not least, Duncan. This is the first thread where l decided l loved you. Despite disagreements, l agree with you more often than not.

l've had a few drinks. My love for you may be enhanced by my decision to stick up for my friends, my rights, and my buzz, but l stand by my decision that you all rock. End of thread.

[freikja]

It's about more than a c-note a day now, these suits often seek injunctions and restraining orders and these things can impact operating permits and liquor licenses.

I mention this so that people cut the mgmt some slack, they no longer have options to fight their good fight.

Wait. So you know full well--and admit--that you are not trying to enforce the distance rule, you're actually trying to strongarm them into complying...or shutting down. Nice. You probably whine about Socialism too, huh.

[Shattered Roses]

Wait. So you know full well--and admit--that you are not trying to enforce the distance rule, you're actually trying to strongarm them into complying...or shutting down. Nice. You probably whine about Socialism too, huh.

Hey! You can't post after an "end of thread"! You destroy the illusion of ending a circular, infinite argument. Gosh.

[freikja]

Hey! You can't post after an "end of thread"! You destroy the illusion of ending a circular, infinite argument. Gosh.

l realized that after the fact. Oh, well.

[breather]

Freikja,

The problems that you're describing mostly fall into the learning curve category, probably entirely.

People will learn to smoke between drinks, not while they have one going, re-carding people ain't rocket science, neither is stamping hands. people will get used to not being able to smoke on the deck, just like they got used to not lighting up inside. Give it a couple of months.

As for a ballot initiative, good luck. It takes about a quarter million signatures to get on the ballot. I'm not making that up, I'm sure you could find the exact number on the secretary of state's webpage.

If you managed to do that you'd then be asking voters to change their minds about something that passed with 60 percent of the vote and you'd be doing this while facing a bankrolled opposition campaign. The reason that there was no money spent fighting the ban was that those who wanted to looked at some polls and saw that it would be money wasted.
They were also assured that they wouldn't be responsible for policing their sidewalks, which no one is asking them to do. But decks and patios are part of their business and it's a no-brainer that they're responsible for what goes on there.

In a month or so, everything will work just fine at the George.

[Matt]

Anyway, l'm drawing up a petition. l've never done that before, so anyone who knows something about this and is interested in helping, l'd love to hear suggestions and thoughts from you.Here are some tips:

(1) Use a #2 pencil.
(2) Find someone who speaks Spanish, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese, because you will be required, by law, to translate your petition into those languages.
(3) Find a lawyer, because you'll need to modify, word by word, the existing law.
(4) Find 250,000 fellow dumbasses who will sign your petition, that being the number of signatures you need.
(5) When done, crush the petition into a small ball and stuff it up your ass.

Judging by what I've seen of your posts, you don't have the resources, brains, or guts to pull this off.

The only modification that will ever occur to the smoking laws will be to make them MORE restrictive. Enjoy smoking more than 25 feet from entrances while you can. Pretty soon, smoke tards won't be smoking anywhere in public.

[Shattered Roses]

Judging by what I've seen of your posts, you don't have the resources, brains, or guts to pull this off.

I strongly disagree.


The only modification that will ever occur to the smoking laws will be to make them MORE restrictive. Enjoy smoking more than 25 feet from entrances while you can. Pretty soon, smoke tards won't be smoking anywhere in public.

Wow. You're a total asshole. I have no words for you.

[Smalan Ithee]

l've been reading back through the thread, and l just need to say, Mz. lthee, well, you know you kick ass.Aww, you're too kind. Ah yes, I remember vividly when I finally got the nerve up (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=8845&postcount=652) to enter the anonymous Texas cage match that is/was this thread. So innocent, so full of hope for compromise - all dashed within a few weeks of schoolyard taunting by the same couple of people under multiple screen names - ahhhh, the good ol' days. I have a mental montage to the sounds of sugary pop ballads running through my head now.

[freikja]

I strongly disagree.

Thank you, SR.

Matt. Child. You have no fucking clue just how vast my resources are. You seem to also be unaware that EVERY SINGLE BAR l frequent will give me free drinks and/or cover as long as l'm standing out on the smoking deck protecting their rights. l've got my charm (which goes a looooong way, trust me) and at least half of the signatures l need in the bag. lt may take a little time, but l can't wait to tell you to kiss my lily-white ass. l certainly have the brains--something you lack in large quantity--and as for my guts, well. l have lived in environments you only see on TV. l have seen and experienced things you've only experienced via TV. And l'm born to parents who have been kicking your ASS regarding anything that required them to put themselves out there in a way that put their whole lives at stake. You also underestimate the scope of my loyalty. Too bad you're not my friend.

You are a slimy little worm, and l will squash you.

By the way, while l was campaigning last night, l made about thirty new friends that will be signing my petition, and who are now in my phonebook. Guess our votes really do count.

[freikja]

Aww, you're too kind. Ah yes, I remember vividly when I finally got the nerve up (http://forums.thestranger.com/showpost.php?p=8845&postcount=652) to enter the anonymous Texas cage match that is/was this thread. So innocent, so full of hope for compromise - all dashed within a few weeks of schoolyard taunting by the same couple of people under multiple screen names - ahhhh, the good ol' days. I have a mental montage to the sounds of sugary pop ballads running through my head now.

Thanks for re-posting that. Wanna sign my petition?

[shredderwench]

I was in the Park Pub on Phinney Ridge on Friday night and there was smoke blowing in from their illegal smoking area right outside the door.

This must stop.

[Shattered Roses]

Thank you, SR.

Matt. Child. You have no fucking clue just how vast my resources are.

You kick ass. Seriously. It's a good thing you use your powers for good.

[Matt]

I was in the Park Pub on Phinney Ridge on Friday night and there was smoke blowing in from their illegal smoking area right outside the door.

This must stop.Shred, thanks very much for that information.

Here is how to report law-breaking activities:
http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/drugs/tobacco/report.aspx

<end of thread>

[fawkes]

Smoketards.

That's still the lamest insult ever.

[breather]

The park Pub, 62nd and Phinney, is still out of compliance with the smoking ban.

Complain here and we'll change this:

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthServices/health/drugs/tobacco/report.aspx

[fawkes]

Breather, shredderwrench, Matt:

If you guys want to play tattle-tale on the naughty smokers, go ahead.

But, please just let this overlong, overdone thread die.

[meherenowie]

Reminds me of something:

The Neverending Happy End (http://www.lesliensinvisibles.org/neverending-happy-end/)

[fedrik]

Smoking I hate it. Cannot do that in my life.

[Matt]

Can anyone recommend a good restaurant that allows smoking?


Oh wait.


There ARE no restaurants that allow smoking!

Bwa ha haaaaa!!!! Haaaaaaaaaaaa haaa ha.
Nyaaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa heeeeeeeeeeeee.

<wipes eyes in pure joy>

Everyone, sing with me!
Oh what a beautiful morning,
Oh what a beautiful day,
I've got a wonderful feeling,
Everything's going my way.On this third anniversary of the implementation of 901, I wanted to say HAPPY BIRTHDAY to the best law EVER!!!!!

I have also written a song in honor of 901. It’s sung to the tune of the Beatles “Yesterday” (Lennon/McCartney). You will now sing along:


Yesterday . . . a smoke-free world seemed so far away.
Now I know that it’s here to stay.
Oh, I believe . . . in 901.

Suddenly, all the air in bars is very clean.
There’s no smoke cloud hanging over me.
Oh, my head might . . . explode from joy.

Why . . . smokers . . . are so dumb, I don’t know.
They’re stupid fucks.
I . . . say . . . “Kiss my ass, stupid fucks.”
It makes me smi . . .i . . .i . . le.

Yesterday . . . smokers polluted yours and mine.
Now my black balloons keep them all in line.
Oh I believe . . . that smoketards are a bunch of dumbasses and I laugh my ass off every time I see one of them standing out in the cold rain sucking on a cancer stick.
Ok, I kinda got carried away with that last line, but I couldn’t help it. My joy cannot be contained.

<end of thread>

[Shattered Roses]

Yesterday . . . a smoke-free world seemed so far away.
Now I know that it’s here to stay.
Oh, I believe . . . in 901.

Suddenly, all the air in bars is very clean.
There’s no smoke cloud hanging over me.
Oh, my head might . . . explode from joy.

Why . . . smokers . . . are so dumb, I don’t know.
They’re stupid fucks.
I . . . say . . . “Kiss my ass, stupid fucks.”
It makes me smi . . .i . . .i . . le.

Yesterday . . . smokers polluted yours and mine.
Now my black balloons keep them all in line.
Oh I believe . . . that smoketards are a bunch of dumbasses and I laugh my ass off every time I see one of them standing out in the cold rain sucking on a cancer stick.

This doesn't even remotely rhyme or follow any sort of meter. Don't play with music to look funny and advance your agenda. It doesn't work on musicians like myself.

[Shattered Roses]

bustin mutton video black women sex ebony doggystyle ass - keep on keeping on movie quote tarty bikes video . dog sex fourms movies made in redding ca . tomb raider cartoon sex i fucked my - movie wings hauser and season hubley download movie tmd tmdmovies . woman having sex pictures man rips girl's clothes off video . war videos violence killed iraqu sex in the city qoutes lorne michaels movies shadow cat porn star - perfect boobs fuck videos sicko zealand movie . john titor video elizabeth carson porn star . the story of loretto chapel movie sora aoi video samples all about amateur sex subaru wrx sti video clips - videos of old hunks masturbating video email forum . stash movie straight men gay sex videos . hannibal movie trailer streetball move video adult webmaster software redbook sex articles - rubber video fetish webcam artist movie theater united . sex parties surrey scarborough town center movies . scary movie cindy a stone's throw the movie lesbian mom fucks girl simpson earthland realm episode video - digital video camera wildlife live video chattin g . sex theory illegal teen xxx video . jenifer lopez nude sex the hook movie listings adult naughty chat women make movies jennifer abod - free movies of strap on domination photos of xxx porn . free hot cheerleaders naked andhaving sex movie quick time trailer . pussy porn pic video pic thirtysomething sex free porn peter north videos hard horny teen schoo fuck - hot young blond sex movie to dvd release schedules . sara amateur carmen haze porn . south point senior movie hardcore hotties video clips yellow rose texas adult free porn hot girls - naked european teen sex striptease google video . bali movie clip daily sex video . ttc video high school latin porn web site . dvd movie rental washington d c ohio adult baby yu-gi-oh movie summaries free hairless pussy fucked - pulaski ny movie rental search photo adult . oregon registry of sex offenders free cartoon horse porn videos . top ten movies grossing strapon mistress movie trailers . bh photo video pro audio inc 1906 olympic movies runaway bride movie poster kim possible xxx movies mature sex foto

Matt's post are almost as intellectually challenging as this one... almost.

[Matt]

This doesn't even remotely rhyme or follow any sort of meter. Don't play with music to look funny and advance your agenda. It doesn't work on musicians like myself.Oh, it most certainly remotely rhymes. "Away" rhymes with "stay," "clean" rhymes with "me," "fucks" rhymes with "fucks," and "mine" rhymes with "line."

Thus, I: (1) played with music; (2) looked funny; and (3) advanced my agenda, m-f'er.

Btw, where is that bitch Melle? I want to make sure that bitch sings along to my 901 song. I demand it. Sing out loud, Melle. Sing out strong. Make it simple, to last your whole life long. Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear. Just sing, sing my 901 song, bitch.

<end of thread>

[Shattered Roses]

Oh, it most certainly remotely rhymes. "Away" rhymes with "stay," "clean" rhymes with "me," "fucks" rhymes with "fucks," and "mine" rhymes with "line."


No.


Yesterday . . . a smoke-free world seemed so far away.
Now I know that it’s here to stay.
Oh, I believe . . . in 901.


"901" does not rhyme with "stay". It's supposed to.


Suddenly, all the air in bars is very clean.
There’s no smoke cloud hanging over me.
Oh, my head might . . . explode from joy.


"Clean" and "me" only rhyme if you're Emily Dickinson. "Me" and "joy" do not rhyme.


Why . . . smokers . . . are so dumb, I don’t know.
They’re stupid fucks.
I . . . say . . . “Kiss my ass, stupid fucks.”
It makes me smi . . .i . . .i . . le.


You can't rhyme "fucks" with "fucks."

And "fucks" under no circumstances rhymes with "smile"

Don't even get me started on your meter, asshole.

[Matt]

"Me" and "joy" do not rhyme.That's because you're a joyless prick. Nyaaaaaaaa!!! Oh, you stepped right into that one!!!

Don't even get me started on your meter, asshole.You insolent SOB! You mistakenly assume that I'm using traditional pentabular cadences. Au contraire. I'm using neo-classical quadraphonic metrics, where every third phoneme is accentuated. So fuck off, whore!!!

Seriously, where is Melle? My gloating is not as satisfying if I don't see him suffer. And I do want that bitch to suffer.

[Abulafia]

Seriously, where is Melle? My gloating is not as satisfying if I don't see him suffer. And I do want that bitch to suffer.

Melle left in early October. Had nothing to do with you or this idiotic thread, so don't flatter yourself.

You'd never make someone like Melle suffer in the least.

[Shattered Roses]

You insolent SOB! You mistakenly assume that I'm using traditional pentabular cadences. Au contraire. I'm using neo-classical quadraphonic metrics, where every third phoneme is accentuated. So fuck off, whore!!!


You don't know what this means.

And you can't change the meter of the song, regardless of whatever meter you chose to use.

[Matt]

Melle left in early October.So the pussy ran away!!! Haaa! I guess he couldn't stand the heat in the Matt Kitchen.

Melle's cowardly departure will serve as a fitting end to this thread.

This is the end, folks. I talked to the moderator and we agreed it's time to end it. She will close this thread to new posts after this final post.

It's been fun. In summary: 901 passed overwhelmingly, bars are in compliance (including George & Dragon!!), bars haven't gone out of business, and the air is clean. Win-win for all.

Take care, everyone!!!

<end of thread>

[meherenowie]

Bye-bye, Matty.If you've followed this thread for awhile, you're probably familiar with the analysis that traces the stupid excesses and distortions of the modern anti-smoking movement to the pharmaceutical industry. At first it was just a compelling theory, but IMO it's become undeniable.

Basically, bans weren't getting any traction until about a decade ago, when Big Pharma stepped in with its huge cash reserves & kicked off a monster campaign of propaganda, faux-grassroots rabble rousing, and legislation. It began in earnest in the late 90s with scenarios like this one: W.H.O. LAUNCHES PARTNERSHIP WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY TO HELP SMOKERS QUIT The pharma industry is also the biggest corporate lobby in politics; ever wonder why politicians with horrible public health records suddenly act like Florence Nightengale when it comes to secondhand smoke? I don't.

Why's Big Pharma doing it? The same reason the tobacco industry tries to hook people: Money. Old-fashioned nicotine-trade dollars. If you want to pump up your profits & your stock price, get all the smokers chewing your gum. If they prefer cigarettes, make it a big pain in the ass for them to smoke: ban it on planes and in airports, ban it in bars, ban it in parks, ban it (if possible) in private homes, fire or refuse to hire smokers. But don't make tobacco illegal: the trick is to keep it legal and keep people hooked, then deny them their fix. Then you offer them the gum ...

There's another trick Big Pharma seems to have learned from Big Tobacco: endow the medical establishment, and doctors will peddle your wares.

E.g., the 2008 guidelines from the National Institutes of Health recommend that doctors prescribe pharmaceutical nicotine to every patient who smokes. http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/tobac...bacco_use08.pdf The panel that conducted this report is plagued with ties to Big Pharma---nine panel members reported conflicts of interest in the form of funding from the pharmaceutical industry. The chair of the panel was endowed by GlaxoWellcome, the manufacturer of Wellbutrin, Commit lozenges, Committed Quitters, NiQuitin/Nicoderm, Nicabate, and Nicorette. Each of these drugs is specifically recommended by the panel. No mention is made of the fact that nicotine replacement is probably the worst method of quitting smoking.

The lead author of the guidelines, John Fiore, has received sharp criticism from the smoking cessation movement itself: "Fiore’s views are shaped by his past ties to the drug industry, and those ties still pose a conflict, at least one consumer advocate said. John Polito, a smoking cessation educator who runs the WhyQuit.com site advocating quitting 'cold turkey,' called the revised guidelines 'a sales pitch' for the drug industry." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24510715/

It gets worse. The hottest quit-smoking aid out right now---Chantix, made by Pfizer---apparently causes people to commit suicide. Lawyers USA reports that "a pharmaceutical plaintiffs' attorney who is representing Linda Collins, said his firm, Cory Watson Crowder & Degaris in Birmingham, Ala., has received more than 1,400 inquiries from Chantix users and their families. In addition to the Collins case, the firm has filed suits in state courts in Louisiana and New York. It has 200 cases, all involving suicides or suicide attempts by Chantix users." Further, "A study in May 2008 by the Institute for Safe Medication Practices, a prescription drug watchdog group based near Philadelphia, reported that in the fourth quarter of 2007, [Chantix] accounted for 988 serious injuries reported to the FDA, more than any other single drug."

Pfizer, meanwhile, has become a major sponsor of one of the biggest international anti-smoking listserves, Globalink (look for the Pfizer logo right there on the main page). Pfizer and Glaxo are sponsoring the 2009 World Conference on Tobacco or Health. The anti-smoking orginization ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) has called for malpractice lawsuits against doctors who fail to prescribe drugs for patients who smoke, in accordance with PHS guidelines. Meanwhile, no one is trying to illegalize tobacco. It becomes clearer every day that the point, all along, was to get people hooked on the pharmaceuticals.

This is ludicrous. For years now, we have been hearing about the hazards of "secondhand smoke" (to which, after centuries of tobacco use, not one specific death has ever been attributed). Now there are thousands of people who have lost loved ones because of a drug that's only been around a couple of years. Worse, public health departments across the country are distributing such drugs en masse via quit-smoking programs and hotlines. Our taxes pay for them, our politicians shill them, our doctors glorify them, and they're killing people.

Meet the new boss.
__________________
"In conclusion, may I confess that nothing is so terrifying to the Socialist today as the folly of his opponents?"---Bernard Shaw



BTW---one fringe benefit to writing about Big Pharma underwriting antismoking is this: It shuts Matt up. I don't think he's ever responded to the issue at all. He becomes quite uncharacteristically shy when the pharmaceutical industry is brought up.

Cool, huh?

[Matt]

Meherenowie, who apparently can't speak for herself, quoted some incoherent blathering from bitch Melle about pharmaceutical companies.

Problem is that the pharmaceutical companies didn't vote for 901. The overwhelming majority of Washington citizens for 901.

As a result, I am . . .

[Matt]

The overwhelming majority of Washington citizens for 901. As a result, I am . . .LAUGHING . . .

[Matt]

LAUGHING . . .MY . . . .

[Matt]

LAUGHING MY . . . .ASS . . . .

[Matt]

LAUGHING MY ASS . . . OFF!!!!!!!

[Shattered Roses]

If this thread is going to be closed, I am not going to let Matt get the last word.

[meherenowie]

Talked to the moderator, he did.


Ooooo.

God, how I wish this one had gotten the ol' inadvertent hook.



I was hoping his head would 'splode for ya. A fitting end. Maybe that's why it won't.

[Smalan Ithee]

talked to the moderator Man, that's far more hilarious than even Matt thinks it is.

[Abulafia]

Melle's cowardly departure will serve as a fitting end to this thread.

You're a twat. Shut the fuck up about Melle. Fucking twat.

[Slade]

Twat?

As a derogatory insult, a pejorative - 'you twat!'
A fool, synonymous with the word twit - 'You are a real twat and a half' (often used in the UK)[3]
To express annoyance - 'I caught my twatting knackers in it!'
To hit something (or someone) hard or violently - 'I twatted him one'
In its past participle form, to be drunk or otherwise intoxicated - 'Let's get twatted'

take off ay! hoser!

watch out ay! were supposed to be better than that!

[Matt]

You know how songs can get stuck in your head?

Well, I've been singing that 901 song all morning. It's so catchy. Especially this part:

Why . . . smokers . . . are so dumb, I don’t know.
They’re stupid fucks.

Ha! Now you'll all be singing it, too! It's, like, contagious, and stuff.

<end of thread>

[meherenowie]

Thought you were gone, Matt-ew?

You won the All-Time Attention Seeking trophy, go polish it.

[Matt]

You won the All-Time Attention Seeking trophy, go polish it.Awesome! In the words of Sally Field, "You love me, you really really love me!!"

<end of thread>

[Ballard Pimp]

Thought you were gone, Matt-ew?

You won the All-Time Attention Seeking trophy, go polish it.

I dunno, MHN. I think he spends all his time polishing his knob.

[meherenowie]

I dunno, MHN. I think he spends all his time polishing his knob.Not sure he ever got that figured out too well.


Hey, BP? Sometimes Matt is superfunny.




MHN laughed and laughed.

[Monkeyfist]

Stop right there... Are you trying to tell me that Matt has a knob? get right out of town. Well I guess a knob is believable, it's balls to deal with his own bullshit without dragging everyone else in the world into it he really lacks...

Matt, plainly stated... Your a wiener.

Thank you. Thank you all.

[Matt]

So . . . you guys don't have anything to say about Initiative 901? Because that's the subject. If you continue posting off-topic posts, I'll be forced to ban your accounts.

<end of thread>

[Shattered Roses]

So . . . you guys don't have anything to say about Initiative 901? Because that's the subject. If you continue posting off-topic posts, I'll be forced to ban your accounts.

<end of thread>

I do:

I completely support it.

Dicks like you make me want to change my mind.

[meherenowie]

If you continue posting off-topic posts, I'll be forced to ban your accounts.Oh, gawd, no. Please don't hurt me, Mr. Polisher sir.


Here: The twenty-five foot rule is really stupid. So is Dances-With-Women, the balloonboy.

I don't have to pay attention to either one.

[meherenowie]

So . . . you guys don't have anything to say about Initiative 901? Because that's the subject.Can't get a date on a Saturday night again, huh.

[Matt]

I completely support it. Dicks like you make me want to change my mind.So . . . you'd let somone who you consider to be a dick change your mind about something? That would make you . . . I don't know . . . kinda stupid?

[fawkes]

So . . . you'd let somone who you consider to be a dick change your mind about something? That would make you . . . I don't know . . . kinda stupid?


No. As usual, little retard Matt can't get words straight in his head. It's ok.

By the way, when are you going to refute the claim that you fuck your mother?

When people like you (by people like you, I mean semi- to fully retarded, masturbation-addicted, motherfucking (literally) assholes with no personality beyond an insane ability to say annoying and vastly unintelligent things, or you know, DICKS) support a position, one must stop and think about one's feelings about a position. Because if someone as fucking stupid as you thinks something is correct, then I generally avoid supporting that position.

Because you're a motherfucking (again, literally) retard.

[Shattered Roses]

When people like you (by people like you, I mean [...] DICKS) support a position, one must stop and think about one's feelings about a position. Because if someone as fucking stupid as you thinks something is correct, then I generally avoid supporting that position.

Because you're a motherfucking (again, literally) retard.

Thanks. Wasn't articulate enough for that.

[meherenowie]

Sunday night too. Mom's best folds must be gummed up again, and Matty's too lazy to get the Brillo.

[Matt]

Because you're a motherfucking (again, literally) retard.First, I'm fairly certain that's a violation of the posting guidelines. I ask the moderator to take appropriate action.

Second, I disagree with your assessment.

[Rain Monkey]

Today I went walking in the snow.

It was pure, untrammelled, unpolluted. Seemingly untouched.

And then I saw the ashes and cigarette but. And then I saw the yellowish glob of frozen mucus.

It made me aware, once again, of the presence of smokers. Of how their principal motive is to announce themselves to the world with pollution.

There, I can hear my neighbor coughing now. All else is silent.

At least, during wartime, the smokers draw the enemy fire to themselves with smoldering embers, wafts of scent, and their gooddamn coughing.

Too bad we can't shoot the fuckers on the street.

Fuck smokers. Fucking stinky fuckers.

[fawkes]

First, I'm fairly certain that's a violation of the posting guidelines. I ask the moderator to take appropriate action.

Second, I disagree with your assessment.

Hmm...somehow, I'm not worried about it.

Go fuck yourself, or your mother, or both.

[Monkeyfist]

First, I'm fairly certain that's a violation of the posting guidelines. I ask the moderator to take appropriate action.

Second, I disagree with your assessment.

And once again you put the "Ass" in Assesment...
Ba dum pshhhh.....

[Shattered Roses]

And once again you put the "Ass" in Assesment...
Ba dum pshhhh.....

and the "viola" in violation and the "oder" in moderator.

oh... wait. Does that not work?

[meherenowie]

appropriate actionI'm "fairly certain" that mad cackling will just about cover it.

[Shattered Roses]

I'm "fairly certain" that mad cackling will just about cover it.

Plus, I don't think that's a personal attack.

If he had said something along the lines of: "You are a fucking moron. I hate you and everything you represent. If I didn't believe you to have been rendered infertile from repeated masturbation to beastiality and incest, I would wish that your children would be a scorn upon this earth; every man woman and child that lays eyes on them will shriek 'Dear God, what is that thing?' If I ever meet you, I will tear out thine entrails and feed them to you with a red-hot spoon. I will take a lit candelbrum--mayhaps several candelabra--and hide it neatly away in your rectum. Then I will smoke a cigarette and put it out on your eye. After all of this, if you are still alive, you will give me a blowjob because if I'm going to smoke, I'm going to cum." I would assume Fawkes would be in some sort of trouble.

Luckily, no one has said that.

[Matt]

Too bad we can't shoot the fuckers on the street. Fuck smokers. Fucking stinky fuckers.Rain Monkey, I . . . I think I love you.

<end of thread, you pussies>

[maggie2]

Here's a nice article for the Melle's, Cantiloper's, Fuze's, and other naysayers out there.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_on_he_me/med_smoking_ban_heart
Is the Stranger ashamed of itself yet for asking its readers to vote against the smoking ban? Has it issued an apology? Didn't see it in the regrets issue.
Also - haven't seen any tobacco ads in The Stranger for a good 2 or 3 months. Rolling Stone has eased up on it too, though it did have an appalling Red Man ad in the last issue. I'd offer a congratulations, but this lull happened last year and the tobacco ads came back stronger than ever. TIM KECK: Time for you to issue a full page ad in The Stranger stating your new policy of refusing any tobacco advertising from now on. Perfect resolution for 2009. Make it happen. Give the art scene hipsters a freaking break from your incessant propaganda campaign to keep the culture addicted to nicotine.

[Slade]

huka huka huka huka!
pppppfffffffffppppppphhhfffffffffffffffffffff uuuuuuuuuuuuuffffffffffffmp!

[Matt]

Amen! You go, Maggie!!

<end of thread>

[Shattered Roses]

Is the Stranger ashamed of itself yet for asking its readers to vote against the smoking ban? Has it issued an apology? Didn't see it in the regrets issue.

Oh, please. Banning smoking is fine with me, but actively taking a side on the issue is not. I'm generally for the bans, but I can't stand it when people are campaigning for the bans. Same thing goes for those who campaign against it. It isn't a big deal. There are more important things. Get over yourselves, all of you fucktards.

[meherenowie]

Amen! You go, Maggie!!

<end of thread>Wax on, wax off, Matty. Happy New Year and give it a rest already. Let Momma heal up some.

[Matt]

Wax on, wax off, Matty. Happy New Year and give it a rest already. Let Momma heal up some.Happy New Year to you, too, meherenowie!!

<end of thread>

[shredderwench]

ya know, now that the George and Dragon is cooperating we really ought level the playing field for them with some of these other bars that have outdoor smoking areas that let people drink at the same time.
the Old peculiar in Ballard and the Bit and Kings Hardware
Linda's on Capitol Hill
the Ballroom in Fremont,
Sullys and the Park pub in Greenwood
Uber and the Kangaroo and Kiwi on aurora.

anybody know of anymore?

lets hear about them and get the air cleared!
complain here:http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthServices/health/drugs/tobacco/report.aspx

[Monkeyfist]

So it sounds as though your issue is people drinking and smoking at the same time?
Wow, maybe we shouldn't drive cars and breath at the same time either.
Or how about getting dressed and listening to music at the same time.

People could get hurt!

I think you need to clarify your statement a bit better with what you are actually looking to accomplish.

[Rain Monkey]

Many people are unaware that even smoking away from babies or pregnant women presents a risk, according to US research.

Poisons in cigarette smoke can linger on fabrics or hair, but a survey of 1,500 households found that fewer than half of smokers knew this.
...
Toxic particles in cigarette smoke can remain on nearby surfaces, as well as the hair and clothing of the smoker, long after the cigarette has been put out, and small children are susceptible because they are likely to breathe in close proximity, or even lick and suck them.

Other studies have linked this exposure to learning problems in children.

Breastfeeding mothers who smoke also pass toxins on to their baby in their milk, he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7813124.stm

Let's get together a petition to pass an initiative to make employers decontaminate smokers when they come back from their frequent, time consuming, smoke breaks.

[Matt]

More good news:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_legislature_smoking.html

Makes my skull want to explode from joy.

<end of thread>

[Slade]

Nasty stinky smokers should be stabbed repeatedly and bashed with base ball bats after they fall.

People who smoke poo sticks are inbred insane infidels .

they stink in bed they stink at work they stink.

[Matt]

People who smoke poo sticks are inbred insane infidels .Actually there is scientific evidence that smokers tend to have mental problems.

they stink in bed they stink at work they stink.Yes, this is obvious. I conducted a study about this earlier on this thread. Most smokers revealed that they were unaware of just how bad they reeked.

<end of thread, you pussies>

[fawkes]

Get fucked Matt. I mean that literally: go have sex with another human being that isn't your mother.

I was born with no sense of smell. Smokers may smell like shit, but that doesn't mean anything to me.

It would seem to me that the smokers on here are likable and rational.

You're a masturbation-addicted retard who has turned me from someone who liked smoking bans to someone who thinks that getting rid of them just to see you choke on the cigarette smoke wouldn't be such a terrible idea.

[Monkeyfist]

People who smoke poo sticks are inbred insane infidels .


Upright Citizens Brigade!

Don't go makin' your own poo on a stick. My son tried it. Killed him. I can still hear him scratching at the door. "Daddy... It's so cold, so cold..."

[Slade]

tobacco creeps should be put in a giant microwave and have the "full cow" button pushed.

It was bad enough when the Natural Tobacco came out? I was like! Marlboro aint Natural?

Kools aint Natural? so I asked Why aint they Natural and the Scientist told me what them Fucktarded shitbags in Congress were letting their rich Virginia buddy's get away with?

Nay I say! Dam straight Skippy! chuck them stinky mental cases and the tabbaco pimps in the micro and nuke the basterds on high until the electricity gets shut off.

[Matt]

I was born with no sense of smell. You were born without sense, period.

It would seem to me that the smokers on here are likable and rational.No, they're stupid. And very stanky. It makes me with laugh with great joy every time I see one of the smoketards outside in the cold rain. Oh how I do laugh!

please just let this overlong, overdone thread die.You wrote that a few weeks back. Why don't you listen to your own advice, you pussy.

<end of thread, you pussies>

[Shattered Roses]

It would seem to me that the smokers on here are likable and rational.


I could never refer to a smoker as "rational" any more than I could call a religious zealot "rational." It simply isn't rational to smoke. There are terrible, severe health risks not only for the smoker, but also all he or she comes into contact with. At least with heroin, there is no secondhand injection. Risk your own damn life.


You're a masturbation-addicted retard who has turned me from someone who liked smoking bans to someone who thinks that getting rid of them just to see you choke on the cigarette smoke wouldn't be such a terrible idea.

This brings me into a dilemma. While I'm against government control of citizen's lives, a smoking ban has been proven in some studies to increase the health of the areas they affect. In this case, I'll go with the health of millions over my own political views.

[fawkes]

Ah, that's funny Matt. You called me a pussy. Hurt a lot, I kind of just want to run home to my mommy and tell her what you called me. Whereas, you're going to go home and fuck your mother.

I could never refer to a smoker as "rational" any more than I could call a religious zealot "rational." It simply isn't rational to smoke. There are terrible, severe health risks not only for the smoker, but also all he or she comes into contact with. At least with heroin, there is no secondhand injection. Risk your own damn life.

Yes, but as almost every single smoker on this thread has said: THEY ARE WILLING TO GO OUTSIDE AND RISK ONLY THEIR "OWN DAMN LIFE". They'd just prefer that they don't have to run 25 feet outside to do it. And I agree with them.

This brings me into a dilemma. While I'm against government control of citizen's lives, a smoking ban has been proven in some studies to increase the health of the areas they affect. In this case, I'll go with the health of millions over my own political views.

Yeah, and most smokers on here agree with you. They're willing to go outside. They just don't think the 25 foot rule makes any sense.

[Shattered Roses]

Yes, but as almost every single smoker on this thread has said: THEY ARE WILLING TO GO OUTSIDE AND RISK ONLY THEIR "OWN DAMN LIFE". They'd just prefer that they don't have to run 25 feet outside to do it. And I agree with them.


Hey, that's fine. I would argue that places that once catered to smokers build some sort of outdoor canopy for them as a courtesy gesture. Maybe this would help with the 25-foot rule being so ridiculous.


Yeah, and most smokers on here agree with you. They're willing to go outside. They just don't think the 25 foot rule makes any sense.

It makes sense. It just doesn't need to be 25 feet. It should just be 6 feet from the door downwind. That seems reasonable, doesn't it?

[fawkes]

It makes sense. It just doesn't need to be 25 feet. It should just be 6 feet from the door downwind. That seems reasonable, doesn't it?

If it made sense, you'd agree with the 25 feet. You don't, because it doesn't have to be that large of a distance. The distance is a nonsensical one. Just realize you agree with what I'm saying and stop mincing words so that you think you're making your own point. We're saying the same thing.

[Slade]

lets make it 100yds and raise the price to 10 bucks a pack so them poo stick puffers have to sell them stinky lips to pay for the stinky habit.

[Shattered Roses]

If it made sense, you'd agree with the 25 feet. You don't, because it doesn't have to be that large of a distance. The distance is a nonsensical one. Just realize you agree with what I'm saying and stop mincing words so that you think you're making your own point. We're saying the same thing.

I agree with a distance. 25 feet is exorbitant.

But yeah, we agree.

[Matt]

The distance, which is necessary to keep the smoke from entering the inside, will not be reduced. In fact, we'll likely increase it in the near future.

And I will continue laughing my ass off.

[fawkes]

The distance, which is necessary to keep the smoke from entering the inside, will not be reduced. In fact, we'll likely increase it in the near future.

And I will continue laughing my ass off.

So will I. Because you're an incestuous troll. Also, because I just saw Bill Burr's standup again. Man, that guy is funny.

Fact is, I'm not a smoker, so I couldn't care less about the distance they must go to smoke. I just find the distance way too large, in a detached, non-obsessive way. Whereas you find it too small, in a disturbing, very much obsessive way. So, keep laughing, it might drown out the laughs pointed in your direction.

[Shattered Roses]

The distance, which is necessary to keep the smoke from entering the inside, will not be reduced. In fact, we'll likely increase it in the near future.


Are they smokers or lepers?

[Matt]

Are they smokers or lepers?Smokers.

It's only 15 feet for lepers.

<end of thread>

[fawkes]

This thread should be dead, but I won't allow it to end with one of Matt's stupid <end of thread>'s.

[Matt]

This thread should be dead, but I won't allow it to end with one of Matt's stupid <end of thread>'s.You are so immature.

<end of thread>

[meherenowie]

Define immature, Matt.

[fawkes]

Immature: Thinking that "smoketard" is witty.

[Mr Pajama Pants]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7813124.stm

Let's get together a petition to pass an initiative to make employers decontaminate smokers when they come back from their frequent, time consuming, smoke breaks.

Observing someone smoking can cause retinal abcesses, and deterioration of optical nerves, even if the person viewing the smoker does not come into contact with the smoke, or smoke particles. A study by a group of medical researchers for a hospital on the east coast someplace said.

-I shit you not.

[Meat Weapon]

Observing someone smoking can cause retinal abcesses, and deterioration of optical nerves, even if the person viewing the smoker does not come into contact with the smoke, or smoke particles. A study by a group of medical researchers for a hospital on the east coast someplace said.

-I shit you not.

Once when I was in high school this acupuncture doctor came to our school to demonstrate something about chi and chakras (which I had previously thought was the monkey boy on "Land of the Lost").

He had me hold out my right arm while he pushed downward on it. I could totally resist the downward pressure and hold my arm out more or less horizontally.

Then he had me hold an unopened pack of cigarettes in my left hand while we repeated the experiment. When I was holding the cigarettes, it totally felt like so much more downward pressure as I tried to keep my right arm held out horizontally. I couldn't possibly keep my arm held out straight while he pushed down on it.

Man, that was a life-changing experience.

[Matt]

<end of thread>

[Shattered Roses]

<end of thread>

Nope. Not going to happen.

[Matt]

Interesting:

"Members of the LGBT (lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender) community are 35 to 200 percent more likely to be smokers than the general public, according to the National LGBT Tobacco Control Network based in Boston.
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=111685

It's a choice. So you can choose to stop doing it.

[Mr Pajama Pants]

Also of note:

Trolls who cannot/refuse to answer the questions created by their absolutist and insulting posts are 2 to 1500% more likely than non-trolls to be junior college or Seattle Art Institute dropouts, friendless, or living with a relative while temping at the hospital.

[Matt]

I've seen the future, and it's beautiful:

http://www.theage.com.au/world/californian-smoking-ban-hits-home-20090127-7qxa.html

"A Silicon Valley city has outlawed lighting up in apartment buildings."

[fawkes]

You fuck your mom.

I hope you get lung cancer.

The government has no right to say you can't smoke in your home. Apartments are up to the landlord.

[meherenowie]

It's the wave of the future; not many people smoke in the home any more anyway, but Matt still loves his oozy seepy mommy. Even on New Year's.

[Matt]

The government has no right to say you can't smoke in your home. Apartments are up to the landlord.Of course the government has the right to make sure one apartment dweller can't pollute another apartment dweller's home. The same way the government can prevent noise pollution (loud music at 2 A.M.). The police will knock on your door and tell you to turn your stereo down. And you'll do it. Ditto when you inconsiderately and thoughtlessly pollute your neighbor's home with your cigarette smoke. The government will tell you to stop. And you'll stop.

It's inevitable. Get used to it. Whine somewhere else, pussy.

[meherenowie]

How's that charity work coming along, Homeyhoneybunches?

[fawkes]

Of course the government has the right to make sure one apartment dweller can't pollute another apartment dweller's home. The same way the government can prevent noise pollution (loud music at 2 A.M.). The police will knock on your door and tell you to turn your stereo down. And you'll do it. Ditto when you inconsiderately and thoughtlessly pollute your neighbor's home with your cigarette smoke. The government will tell you to stop. And you'll stop.

It's inevitable. Get used to it. Whine somewhere else, pussy.

I don't smoke. I don't play loud music at 2 am.

How's your mom, pussy?

[Shattered Roses]

Of course the government has the right to make sure one apartment dweller can't pollute another apartment dweller's home.

Since when do smokers pollute neighboring apartments?

Anyway, the only way I could see government having any ability to ban smoking in the home would be to label it is a fire hazard and add it to the fire code. But, the Libertarian in me has a major problem with that.

[Matt]

I don't smoke. I don't play loud music at 2 am.That's what everyone in apartments will soon be saying.

[Matt]

Since when do smokers pollute neighboring apartments?Hi Shattered. Thanks for writing. Smokers pollute neighboring apartments because the smoke can drift through open windows, open sliding doors, through ventilation systems, through the tops and bottoms of doors, through poorly sealed walls, etc. For example, if you read the article I provided, you'll see the following: "Mr Goodrich said he noticed smoke drifting in from neighbours' rooms soon after he moved to Bonnie Brae in 1998. "It gave me an instant headache.""

Smokers also often smoke on their balconies, which can be just feet from their neighbor's balcony. In addition, in the summer, many apartment dwellers without AC must choose between (1) leaving their windows open and allowing smoke to drift in; or (2) closing their windows and frying. Reasonable citizens realize that that's not a fair choice.

Obviously, decent people don't pollute other people's homes. Unfortunately, most smokers are stupid and inconsiderate and need to be spanked into submission by the government.

Anyway, the only way I could see government having any ability to ban smoking in the home would be to label it is a fire hazard and add it to the fire code.No, the government can ban it simply for health reasons. California, for example, has already ruled that secondhand smoke is a health hazard.

But, the Libertarian in me has a major problem with that.Your desire to be free from government intrusion is trumped by the failure of citizens to be considerate of others. If inconsiderate jackasses didn't blast music at 2 AM, the government would never have to pass noise ordinances. Likewise, if inconsiderate jackasses never contaminated other people's homes with cigarette smoke, we wouldn't have gov intrusion in that matter. So blame the smokers.

Of course, it will be all be a moot point in about a decade.

[Shattered Roses]

Hi Shattered. Thanks for writing. Smokers pollute neighboring apartments because the smoke can drift through open windows, open sliding doors, through ventilation systems, through the tops and bottoms of doors, through poorly sealed walls, etc. For example, if you read the article I provided, you'll see the following: "Mr Goodrich said he noticed smoke drifting in from neighbours' rooms soon after he moved to Bonnie Brae in 1998. "It gave me an instant headache.""


It isn't the smoker's fault that the buildings are inadequate. If we were to enact ordinances to fix these buildings so smoke could not drift between apartments, we could avoid interfering with people's private lives and protect the rest from discomfort and secondhand smoke. But, in an apartment situation, the owners of the building could ban smoking simply because they own the property. If the government were to provide incentives for owners who take this initiative, I would not terribly mind this either. Although, properly sealing apartments would be a more reasonable and agreeable option.

[freikja]

Page 69, baby, whoo!

Who bought (er, brought) the strippers?

Oooo, community carton!

[fawkes]

Page 69? I thought we were up to 172?

[meherenowie]

It was something like 101 or 2, until somebody or somebodies went through and took out a bunch of their posts.

[Duncan]

I was hoping that it was slowly eating itself.

[Matt]

Something got screwed up. Perhaps the forum couldn't handle a thread with so many posts.

Notice that the Politics home page now claims that Smalan Ithee was the thread starter. That's crap. It was Fuzed. The oldest post is now a Smalan Ithee post from January 2006, but Fuzed started this thread in mid to late 2005.

Hundreds of posts have been deleted.

Stranger ADMIN: I demand that the deleted posts be resurrected immediately. All of my posts are works of art that should be preserved for posterity, to be turned into a movie one day. Called: "Matt: Nonsmoking Badass."

[Matt]

It isn't the smoker's fault that the buildings are inadequate.The buildings aren't inadequate. It's impossible to prevent cigarette smoke from drifting through an open window, open door, or over to another person's patio. It's silly to pretend that an apartment can be made smoke-proof.

Your statement is as silly as: "Gee, don't blame me for blasting my stereo at 2 AM! It's not my fault the building is inadequate! They should have spent millions to make every apartment 100% soundproof."

No, instead, we expect neighbors to act like decent human beings and not negatively affect their neighbors with loud noise or cigarette smoke.

The reasonable solution (and I think I mentioned this already) is to ban smoking in apartment buildings. And, of course, that is what will happen.

[smallpoxchampion]

As an ex-smoker, I am a huge proponent of any and every anti-smoking political act that anyone can think of.

On a related note, I also do not drive/own a car/utilize any type of vehicle that emits carbon monoxide. It is disgusting and vile and what's worse:

it harms.

Do you guys think I'll ever live to see cars being banned to protect my lungs? Why do people with cars get to ride around everywhere, polluting my air, destroying my health and shortening my life? Why can't we kill them, I mean restrict them to sewers, landfills and deserts like we've done with the smokers?

On the one hand, the majority's on my side about banning smoking because these smoker motherfuckers are bringing about the end of the world, yet on the other hand, I have but a few people that want to get rid of cars all together?

So is it the ideal that's important? Or just the number of people that support it?

[Gazelam]

And I don't get why this issue has gotten so much coverage in these forums, so much more so than certain other civil rights issues. How can you fill so many pages and pages just debating this bullshit?

[Matt]

Do you guys think I'll ever live to see cars being banned to protect my lungs?Don't know. I doubt it. Cars actually perform a useful function. Cigarettes perform no useful function. So it's really not analogous.

But if you're concerned about it, you can always get signatures for a car-banning initiative. Regardless, that issue is irrelevant to 901. It's good that we removed cancer-causing cigarette smoke from workplaces. Sure, there are other pollutants out there in the world. But removing one of them is a good step.

[breather]

Here's a smokie claiming that he's being evicted from his apartment because they told him that he couldn't smoke in it. Fucking hilarious!

http://crosscut.com/blog/crosscut/18795/

[smallpoxchampion]

Don't know. I doubt it. Cars actually perform a useful function. Cigarettes perform no useful function. So it's really not analogous.

But if you're concerned about it, you can always get signatures for a car-banning initiative. Regardless, that issue is irrelevant to 901. It's good that we removed cancer-causing cigarette smoke from workplaces. Sure, there are other pollutants out there in the world. But removing one of them is a good step.

Cars perform a useful function for the ones inside them/the smokers, but what use do I have for cars when I'm riding my bike down I-5, coughing on the fumes that come trailing out of their exhaust pipes?

I don't see why personal responsibility can't govern our lives instead of the government. Smoking/Non-Smoking seemed to have worked before. Why not now?

[Matt]

Cars perform a useful function for the ones inside themYes, they do.

what use do I have for cars when I'm riding my bike?Probably none. So is your proposal that cars are permissible while you're in a car but banned when you're riding your bike? Or is it that you want to ban anything that you don't currently use? I'm sensing that you're kind of a confused and sad individual. Aren't you.

Regardless, this seems to be very important to you. Therefore, I encourage you to start an initiative drive to ban cars. Good luck!! Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying smoke-free bowling alleys, ice skating rinks, bars, and restaurants. Awesome!!!!!

Btw, that reminds me: Hey Freikja: How's the signature gathering going? Bwaaahaaaaa!!

[freikja]

Btw, that reminds me: Hey Freikja: How's the signature gathering going? Bwaaahaaaaa!!

Quite well, thank you. A number of establishments l've spoken with have gotten on board, and will be helping me gather signatures as well. l think you'll be unpleasantly surprised, which satisfies me greatly. Frankly, l'm not really interested in this bullshit banter with you anymore; l have better things to do with my time. Like signatures. Toodles.

[Matt]

A number of establishments . . .A number? Like what? Two? (giggle)


Frankly, l'm not really interested in this bullshit banter with you anymoreYou'll banter with me whether you like it or not.

Your little crusade is doomed to failure.

[smallpoxchampion]

That's pretty much what I thought. It's really just about the number of people that support an ideal, not the ideal itself.

I just saw a trailer for an animated 3D movie that's coming out soon. When asked about the 3D experience, one observant viewer remarked, "It made me feel like I was in the movie."

[Matt]

It's really just about the number of people that support an idealOf course. It's a democracy. Moron.

901 passed overwhemingly by the people.

And you have the same opportunity to collect signatures and pass your tiny little initiative. Oh, but you're just whining.

Meanwhile, I'm laughing my ass off. Cuz, yaknow, we won.

[smallpoxchampion]

Back in the day, Alvin used to don a white sheet and burn crosses because

"Well adoiiii, is the democracy in here, adoiiii morons!"

[Matt]

Back in the day, Alvin used to don a white sheet and burn crosses because

"Well adoiiii, is the democracy in here, adoiiii morons!"Ahh, yes, the smoker is the new black!!!!!

Bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gazelam]

Shit thread, lock & ban plz...

[smallpoxchampion]

Ahh, yes, the smoker is the new black!!!!!

Bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your powers of comprehension are mindblowing.

What else can you expect from someone who thinks "yaknow" is a word.

[Matt]

What else can you expect from someone who thinks "yaknow" is a word.Wow, if you're annoyed by "yaknow," I'm gonna have a blast wit choo!!!

901 passed. It's permanent. Why are you still here whining about it?

[Shattered Roses]

901 passed. It's permanent. Why are you still here whining about it?

No one is whining about it.

You won't drop it.

[Matt]

No one is whining about it.Oh, you must have missed the posts on this thread. It's 99% whining about 901. You must be stupid er sumptin.

You won't drop it.Well, you just responded to this thread, just like I did. Why don't you drop it, pussy?

[fawkes]

Well, you just responded to this thread, just like I did. Why don't you drop it, pussy?

You've repeatedly come back to this thread once it was dead-ish so that you could "report" on some bullshit. So, you're the one who needs to drop it, mom-fucker.

[Mr Pajama Pants]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/03/12/poo/

[Matt]

You've repeatedly come back to this thread once it was dead-ish so that you could "report" on some bullshit. So, you're the one who needs to drop it, mom-fucker.Look, I don't want to drag this out, either. However, you bring up an interesting perspective regarding the "resurrection" of this thread. So I did a scientific analysis to see who, in fact, is to blame for the continuance of this thread. Here are the results:

This thread, believe it or not, was dormant for more than TWO MONTHS back in mid '08. We all hoped that it was done. However, a dumbass by the name of Ballard Pimp responded to the thread (thus resurrecting it, to all of our chagrin) with this useless piece-of-shit text: "Bumping the thread upon request." Go see his dumbass post for yourself -- June 3, 2008. The thread had gathered two month's of dust. I didn't resurrect it. So don't blame me, sissy Argentina.

Blame Ballard Pimp. WHAT A DUMBASS!!!!!!

Btw, regarding your claim that I present "bullshit," at least I present useful information, such as the recent news about smoking in apartments, which led to a very fruitful discussion (where "fruitful" means I kicked ass, per usual) with Shattered (who eventually limped away and hid, in true sissy fashion). Guess real discussions are not of interest?

In contrast to my useful posts, what does fawkes (another dumbass) contribute? Gems like "You fuck your mom" and "I hope you get lung cancer."

Nuf said, pussy sissy.

[Matt]

Something got screwed up. Perhaps the forum couldn't handle a thread with so many posts.

Notice that the Politics home page now claims that Smalan Ithee was the thread starter. That's crap. It was Fuzed. The oldest post is now a Smalan Ithee post from January 2006, but Fuzed started this thread in mid to late 2005.

Hundreds of posts have been deleted.

Stranger ADMIN: I demand that the deleted posts be resurrected immediately. All of my posts are works of art that should be preserved for posterity, to be turned into a movie one day. Called: "Matt: Nonsmoking Badass."You know, it's funny, but I'm pretty sure I required all the posts to be returned to this thread. What's the problem? Are the admins tards or something?

[Shattered Roses]

Btw, regarding your claim that I present "bullshit," at least I present useful information, such as the recent news about smoking in apartments, which led to a very fruitful discussion (where "fruitful" means I kicked ass, per usual) with Shattered (who eventually limped away and hid, in true sissy fashion). Guess real discussions are not of interest?


I hardly limped away. I realized that you were only going to continue using circular reasoning with me and I decided to cut it off before I got involved.

I must agree that you do not present bullshit as far as the articles you post. However, shit like:

Ahh, yes, the smoker is the new black!!!!!

Bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is total bullshit. Not to mention incredibly irritating.

The government has no authority to ban smoking in apartments due to health reasons. They can ban it on fire code grounds, and that's fine with me; eliminating smoking from inside the building would cut down on apartment building fires. However, the government does NOT have the right to ban smoking within one's own home under any circumstances. However, the government also does NOT have the right to ban controlled substances and yet it continues to do so. I realize, though, that this is the libertarian talking.

[freikja]

A number? Like what? Two? (giggle)

Jesus. lf l knew you actually giggled, l would have stopped dealing with you a long time ago. What was l fucking thinking.

[freikja]

Oh, and forty two.

[freikja]

Cuz, yaknow, we won.

So did the Republicans at one point. They ain't laughing so much now. Don't count your chickens, little one.

[freikja]

You know, it's funny, but I'm pretty sure I required all the posts to be returned to this thread. What's the problem? Are the admins tards or something?

Right, because maybe they are demented and actually like you. Take the red pill, the red pill!

[Matt]

Right, because maybe they are demented and actually like you. Take the red pill, the red pill!When your posts are consistently shorter than your signature, that's a clue to STFU.

Wow. 42. I'm going to run and hide under my bed!! (giggle)

[smallpoxchampion]

I still don't get it.

In a free society, people don't have the right to open up a restaurant and say:

We are open for smokers, run by smokers, whose employees smoke. Come on in and smoke with us.

Why?

"Cuz like yaknow, is lyke democracy LOL," - Matt: Nonsmoking Badass. (giggle).

Apparently.

[Mr Pajama Pants]

That's a good point.

If all your employees smoke and love it, your business could be all smoking all the time, who cares.

My idea would be a thematic bar - old cigarette commercials looped on a big screen, all kinds of vintage trays, print ads, smoke stands. I'd call the joint Lung Noir. On Sundays we'd show Thin Man and Charlie Chan movies. His Girl Friday. Dragnet and the Maltese Falcon. The block would be lined up every night. A gold mine.

[fawkes]

You know what I hate? Those "truth" ads about cigarettes. They are irritating, hardly ever witty, and generally annoying. There are very few people on Earth arguing that cigarettes are healthy for you. People know the danger. If they choose to make an informed bad decision, that's up to them. Those fucking "truth" commercials just make me want to punch the people involved. I'm certainly not against telling people the dangers of smoking, but don't do it in an over-the-top, over-dramatic, boring way.


Anyway, on to my point.

On a recent trip to Pennsylvania, I stopped into a bar to use the bathroom, and noticed a sign on the door that said "Smoking Allowed on Premises".

I feel like that that is a good idea for the smoking issue. Just let businesses allow smoking, but there must be a sign that says that smoking may be going on, and therefore will inform non-smoking people to avoid the business. Hell, make it mandatory to be part of their advertising.

Or, you know, just get rid of the silly 25-foot rule and I won't give a shit at all about the issue.

[Shattered Roses]

You know what I hate? Those "truth" ads about cigarettes. They are irritating, hardly ever witty, and generally annoying. There are very few people on Earth arguing that cigarettes are healthy for you. People know the danger. If they choose to make an informed bad decision, that's up to them. Those fucking "truth" commercials just make me want to punch the people involved. I'm certainly not against telling people the dangers of smoking, but don't do it in an over-the-top, over-dramatic, boring way.


The target audience is supposedly adolescents. The overwhelming majoriy of people who smoke started before they were out of college. Some start later, but these people are retarded. The kids, on the other hand, are impressionable; the commercials are trying to 'impression' the kids the right way. Whether or not they're effective is another issue, just saying they aren't targeting you.

[fawkes]

The target audience is supposedly adolescents. The overwhelming majoriy of people who smoke started before they were out of college. Some start later, but these people are retarded. The kids, on the other hand, are impressionable; the commercials are trying to 'impression' the kids the right way. Whether or not they're effective is another issue, just saying they aren't targeting you.

Are you telling me that when you were 14, a dude crawling out of a subway in a rat suit with a sign that says "Cigarettes have cyanide, just like rat poison" would have effected you in any way?